freedom of speech rules!!

[sheryar]

when the pics of the Prophet was posted muslims protested and the rest shut them up saying freedom of speech and the first ammendment blah blah

now when Da Vinchi Code was released u can see all the poor faggit christians riotting outside cinemas in USA saying blasphamey etc etc

i actually went up to one of the groups rioting and asked them:

"Why r u protesting?"

they replied saying:

"this movie is a blasphamey and it mocks the bible and jesus christ"

i was like:

"ohhhh my God ...thts so mean!!!" ... "but wait whts wrong in tht?"

"wht do u mean whts wrongs???? its a sin!!!"

"a sin? o rly? but according to ur 1st ammendment and ur right to free speech there nothing wrong with this movie "

"F### THE 1ST AMMENDMENT!!! THIS MOVIE IS AN INSULT TO CHRISTINAITY AND IS A BLASPAMEY..........."

[by now i was trying really hard to not laugh on their face]

" oh my relax dude .... chilll out .... "

" HOW CAN I BE CHILL IF THEY DO SUCH SINFULL ACTS??? "

"well i dunno ... but hey i gotta go man ... Da Vinchi Code starts in 10 miuntes and i wont get a good seat "

i still remember the look on their face when i said tht (and the curses) but hey i dont care


p.s. the movie is not tht bad

check it out

[hayyaan]

its launched!!!

awsome me gonna get it on dvd

i still dont get the theme its a story type movie right continous or a documentary thing?

[keZ]

Yes , despite the huge resentment against it in the USA , its being shown in theatres across that country That is exactly freedom of speech.

[AhmedKhan]

Originally Posted by keZ

Yes , despite the huge resentment against it in the USA , its being shown in theatres across that country That is exactly freedom of speech.

How naive
It's not because of freedom of speech. It's because the number of people who want to watch it is far far larger than those who consider it an insult to Christianity. It's called "Capitalism" not "freedom of speech".
You know it did make over $75 million on the opening weekend and the 2nd larget movie opening worldwide bringing in around $244 million after Spider Man. Some "huge resentment".

[Fookie]

ditto ! ahmedkhan

[Mobius]

freedom of speech is a lie, a fallacy, a facade. of the finest sorts. just understand this. in expressing yourself, you need freedom. the freedom ceases to exist when you confine yourself to definition and rules of language.

i find the visual arts a much better mode of expression. and its free too.

freedom is a lie if you sit down and choose to define it. but then, whats truth? If one mans truth is another man's lie, where goes uniformity?

[AhmedKhan]

Originally Posted by Mobius

freedom of speech is a lie, a fallacy, a facade. of the finest sorts. just understand this. in expressing yourself, you need freedom. the freedom ceases to exist when you confine yourself to definition and rules of language.

i find the visual arts a much better mode of expression. and its free too.

freedom is a lie if you sit down and choose to define it. but then, whats truth? If one mans truth is another man's lie, where goes uniformity?

Not entirely accurate. You can go out of your home and badmouth Mush as much as you want (which he rightfully desrves) and no one will do anything horrible to you. Try the same thing in Saudi Arabia against King Abdullah and see if anyone can ever find you . This my friend, is freedom of speech.
About confining yourself to rules and definations. You can not have a meaningful conversation if it weren't for definations. Two people may have a different defination of a certain idea or word but that doesn't mean you are confining. It's just necessary to have it.
Then again, visual arts being a better mode is your "opinion". Your right to your opinion is again part of Free Speech.
Who want uniforimity?

[Mobius]

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

Not entirely accurate. You can go out of your home and badmouth Mush as much as you want (which he rightfully desrves) and no one will do anything horrible to you. Try the same thing in Saudi Arabia against King Abdullah and see if anyone can ever find you . This my friend, is freedom of speech.
About confining yourself to rules and definations. You can not have a meaningful conversation if it weren't for definations. Two people may have a different defination of a certain idea or word but that doesn't mean you are confining. It's just necessary to have it.
Then again, visual arts being a better mode is your "opinion". Your right to your opinion is again part of Free Speech.
Who want uniforimity?

we are all free to speak, do, act, express.
and entirely responsible for the consequences.

but let me rephrase.
the concept of free speech in the minds of the masses is what i was pointing to. if you consider going out and badmouthing mush an act of free speech, you are mistaken. true free speech requires self-formed opinions, which again aren't really possible. what then is free speech? depends on how you define it? i myself sleep with the dictionary every time i utter a word. but then again, without protocol, everything would be just coincidential enfragma. the freedom lies in not what you are speaking, but how you have thought it out. sorry if im not quite clear on this, as im in quite a hurry.

as far as the visual arts being a better mode of expression, i think i clearly expressed that it was my opinion. and i never implied that you are to think of it as such too.

definition is nessecary, and i never said it wasn't. but it does confine.
consider:
lock up an englishman and a chinese in a cell. are they going to have meaningful conversation? yes. in time, they will establish a common ground of definitions for things, maybe even create a new language. but on the other hand, if they fail to establish such a common ground, they can still express themselves in term relevant to themselves. the ideas of expression put forward here will be open to pure subjectivity. the chinese will draft his own opinion of what the englishman's carved pictures mean. they will not be able, however, to communicate.

the confine comes when you consider that definition, given time, alienates you from the idea that everything is open to subjectivity, as opposed to the objectivity granted by language and other modes of expression. to deny definition is to deny yourself communication. expression without definition can be possible. so, is freedom of speech akin to freedom of expression? big question.

as hitler put it, give a man an audience, and he will speak his mind's worth. put the same man in confinement, and he will think his mind's worth.

[brainstormer]

freedem of speech truly depends upon the fact or evidence. u need to proove ur opinions rite with the aid of the facts/evidence u have, those facts which brought u to such conclusion/opinion.
its similar to freedom of speech given to the PRESS. they prove their news with evidence.

[AhmedKhan]

Originally Posted by Mobius

we are all free to speak, do, act, express.
and entirely responsible for the consequences.

but let me rephrase.
the concept of free speech in the minds of the masses is what i was pointing to. if you consider going out and badmouthing mush an act of free speech, you are mistaken. true free speech requires self-formed opinions, which again aren't really possible. what then is free speech? depends on how you define it? i myself sleep with the dictionary every time i utter a word. but then again, without protocol, everything would be just coincidential enfragma. the freedom lies in not what you are speaking, but how you have thought it out. sorry if im not quite clear on this, as im in quite a hurry.

as far as the visual arts being a better mode of expression, i think i clearly expressed that it was my opinion. and i never implied that you are to think of it as such too.

definition is nessecary, and i never said it wasn't. but it does confine.
consider:
lock up an englishman and a chinese in a cell. are they going to have meaningful conversation? yes. in time, they will establish a common ground of definitions for things, maybe even create a new language. but on the other hand, if they fail to establish such a common ground, they can still express themselves in term relevant to themselves. the ideas of expression put forward here will be open to pure subjectivity. the chinese will draft his own opinion of what the englishman's carved pictures mean. they will not be able, however, to communicate.

the confine comes when you consider that definition, given time, alienates you from the idea that everything is open to subjectivity, as opposed to the objectivity granted by language and other modes of expression. to deny definition is to deny yourself communication. expression without definition can be possible. so, is freedom of speech akin to freedom of expression? big question.

as hitler put it, give a man an audience, and he will speak his mind's worth. put the same man in confinement, and he will think his mind's worth.

I am not quite sure if I follow what you are trying to say here as you said that you are in hurry. Perhaps you can explain better when you are not in a hurry.
As to your "big question", freedom of speech is PART of freedom of expression. You have a right to express yourself freely, now you choose it to be in speech or performance or art or any other form is your choice. But all these fall under the broader category of freedom of exression. It doesn't seem that big to me .
I never said that you implied that I am to think of art as a better way of epression, I was merely pointing out to what freedom of expression encompasses including the right to have an opinion. That was an example of an opinion which you have every right to yet others have their right to form their own opnions which may very well be in direct confilct with that of yours.

There isn't so much "freedom of expression" in Pakistan because we are limited by two boundries, political and religious. So not much point talking about it .

[Mobius]

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

I am not quite sure if I follow what you are trying to say here as you said that you are in hurry. Perhaps you can explain better when you are not in a hurry.
As to your "big question", freedom of speech is PART of freedom of expression. You have a right to express yourself freely, now you choose it to be in speech or performance or art or any other form is your choice. But all these fall under the broader category of freedom of exression. It doesn't seem that big to me .
I never said that you implied that I am to think of art as a better way of epression, I was merely pointing out to what freedom of expression encompasses including the right to have an opinion. That was an example of an opinion which you have every right to yet others have their right to form their own opnions which may very well be in direct confilct with that of yours.

There isn't so much "freedom of expression" in Pakistan because we are limited by two boundries, political and religious. So not much point talking about it .

i have the freedom to deny. you seem not to have this.

i deny political and religious boundaries altogether. and suffer the consequences. to get a better idea of what freedom really is, read rene descartes.

[AhmedKhan]

Originally Posted by Mobius

i have the freedom to deny. you seem not to have this.

i deny political and religious boundaries altogether. and suffer the consequences. to get a better idea of what freedom really is, read rene descartes.

Descartes, the "I think, therefore I am" dude .
Sir, I beg to disagree with you and I am sorry to burst your bubble here but you are free to certain limits. You can "choose" to deny the "boundries" as much as you want but that will not remove those boundries in fact. If that were the case, we would be animals.
Now you definately are restricted by law of the land. You can't kill someone if you felt like it. You can't drive through a red light if you felt like it (which most definately isn't the case in Pakistan). As far as religion is concerned, we don't see the consequences of not following the limitations set by it right away but we will. I don't think anyone would be happy on that "day" for choosing "unlimited freedom" over stayig within the limitations set by Religion.

[dakoo]

hamazra mulk bhi azaad hai

[muhammadalikhann]

Originally Posted by dakoo

hamazra mulk bhi azaad hai

ROFLMAO
Good one man that had me laughing my ass off for quite some time.
Mobios man did you like take your first post from the architect in the matrix?
You guys think freedom of speech is that the protestors are trying to get the movie banned? well it is their freedom of speech which allows them to make this demand. Unlike the "peacefull" muslim protests these protests are actually peacefull.
Sheryar you think that if you had the nerve to ask the same questions from the muslim protestors would you have been able to post this here, i am assuming you would have been in the hospital by now or maybe even worse.