How Turboes make power

HuMaYuN! · #1 02-01-05, 01:56 AM

Ok After Reading Posts from My car mentor AKA BadBoy
This is what i've concluded/Understood !

What is Turbo?

What the system does is that it compresses the Air going into the cylinder for combustion and compressed air means more air will fit in meaning a better/more-complete combustion of Fuel giving more power!

CNG has more Hydrocarbons (i think thats what they are called) But still why does it give less power than fuel?

Well what i under stood is that CNG is better in buring than fuel and can give more power but the only problem is that CNG flows at its own rate so meaning less CNG is the Cylinder for Combustion!

SO my point of making this Thread is that cant they make a system which makes CNG flow faster or Compress the CNG for it to fit more into the cylinder or Force CNG into it???

EDIT:Just remembered CNG is already compressed but still cant they make it go more faster in the engine?

badboy4life · #2 02-01-05, 03:59 AM

okay so here i go ..
(answering car tech questions make me so happy

)

turbo:
alrite now u hav two engines a 6000CC one and a 1000CC one
which will make more power given that engien design and fuel are same
ofcourse the 6000CC one
y?
okay first of all u need to knwo wat these CC's represent
u know whn u go to the hospital to get ur hepatitus shots or sum shit
the doctor says to the nurse give him XXX CC's of that medicine
CC's is a unit of measurement like for say meters if ur talkin bout distance
so whn u talk of engines a 1000CC one
u r saying that that engine can hold a 1000 CC's of air in its cylinders in 1 stroke
now if u scrape off the walls of that cylinder
make the cylinder bigger diameter wise
and throw in bigger pistons
u can increase its DISPLACEMENT( the amount of air it can hold)

now how do engines make power
they compress the air spray some fuel on it and ignite it
the air EXPLODES ,pushing the pistons down
at present for say my cars engine is compressing 1600CC's of air and makin 100 horsepower
but if i increase its displacement to 3200CC then it will be compressing DOUBLE the amount of air thus making 200HP!!!!!
but that isnt practical cuz if i scrape that much off the cylinder walls that will make the walls really thin\weak and my engine wont even make it through 2 drags!!!
so we turbo it ......
now how a turbo works...its a NOT SO simple pump which forces air into the engine
u guys often see me talkin bout a turbo civic running 5 "pounds\psi's" of boost
that means the turbo is pushing in air wid a force of 5 pounds
okay so now the turob is pushing air into my engine wid a force of 5 pounds
that means its pushing 544 CC's of xtra air(tehcnical calculation u need to know bout atmospheric pressure and shit to figure out so dont get into it)

so THEOREDICALLY my total engien displacement has increased to 1600+544=2144 CC
thats y it makes more power than a normal 1600 cc engien

okay thats the simplest way i cud explain how a turbo makes more power
if u guys want i cud explain how it actually compresses air just metnion it in ur post and ill do so !!!

CNG ISSUE REGARDING PRESSURE:
they CAN make cng flow faster by increasing the pressure in the CNG cylinder
but yaar that is too dangerous
its already very dangereous the way it is
increasing pressure will be suicide !!!!

now if they place a pump between the cng cylinder and engien to increase the pressure
same case !!!
still there will be ridiculously high pressure in that pump
thatll be like a bomb on wheels

badboy4life · #3 02-01-05, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuMaYuN!

meaning a better/more-complete combustion of Fuel giving more power!

NOOOOO
NEVER
the last thing u want in a petrol engine is to make the combustion complete in the cylinder
reason ..
in a normal engine only 87% of the fuel is being burnt
cuz at complete combustion the air\petrol mixture DOESNOT burn
it XPLODS like a bomb
if it xplods instead of BURNING it will break the pistons and crank within 1 stroke!!!
complete combustion is like a grenade going of in the cylinder
u dont want that
so along wid turboing the car u also hav to increase fuel accordingly

HuMaYuN! · #4 02-01-05, 04:43 AM

A really nice explanation ThankS!

Well u can explain how it compresses the air if u want to and the description is easy to understand!

And i always wondered why engines dont do complete combustion of fuel?i mean that would mean less carbon monooxide and more dioxide!But ur 2nd post has answered that too!

I think they should make even more bigger engines with bigger internal diameters!

badboy4life · #5 02-01-05, 05:17 AM

okay so here u go
a turbo is a mini fan
it is mounted in ur exhaust rite in the middle of the headers like this

the exhaust gas is coming out of the engine at a considerable velocity
so that gas velocity is used to spin the fan
which throws air into the engine
the pic says it all...

this is a BIG ASS turbo frm a supra
the ones we put on our civic's r the same but smaller in size

so u see it acts like a powerful fan inbetween the intake and ur engine powered by the exhaust gas velocity!!!!

HuMaYuN! · #6 03-01-05, 03:57 PM

OH!so actually it means that it does'nt need any extra energy to run!!????
And it recycles energy!Really nice!

Well is the fan the only thing used to put more air into the cylinders???or is there anything else in the turbo thingie as well?

And designs pretty simple!Does it mean that its cheap?And is the performance increase good enuff?

And if you could also write a simple guide like this how Nitrous oxide systems work it would be great and really informative!And Plz also do tell us of how other things work with simple drawings/explanations!

Mobius · #7 03-01-05, 07:01 PM

can someone explain my cars "quad turbocharger" to me please. properly. someone told me it pumps 4 times more air in the sport mode or shit. that sorta doesnt agree with the above description of a turbo. and, i know this much: the manual says theres a switch and a fuse for the turbo. the switch turns on the recirculation pump, and the fuse is duh, to protect it from a surge. this switch is electronic and is activatated: in kickdown [pressing the accelerator all the way down]; sport mode [button next to gear]; speeds above 220 km/h on fourth gear.

Mobius · #8 03-01-05, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuMaYuN!

OH!so actually it means that it does'nt need any extra energy to run!!????
And it recycles energy!Really nice!

Well is the fan the only thing used to put more air into the cylinders???or is there anything else in the turbo thingie as well?

And designs pretty simple!Does it mean that its cheap?And is the performance increase good enuff?

And if you could also write a simple guide like this how Nitrous oxide systems work it would be great and really informative!And Plz also do tell us of how other things work with simple drawings/explanations!

as far as i know, nitrous oxide is a very flammable gas, which when pumped into the engine burns with oxygen to create a lot of force and heat. this pumps up a lot of rpms. also can blow even

DeVile · #9 04-01-05, 01:30 AM

is there a difference between a turbo and a turbo charger..??

Then whats a Supercharger..???

i think superchargers are most effiecient then turbochargers...??? correct..??

badboy4life · #10 04-01-05, 08:09 AM

okay first of alll
YAY
REPLIES!!!!!!!

okay so here u go
turbo is the most efficeint way of increasing HP beause it recycles ur exhasut gas velocity to make more hp

supercharger and turbo r the same thing
just imagine that instead of running the turbo off ur exhauat gas velocity
u spin the same kinda fan\turbine by connecting a belt to it and the other end to ur engine crank(the thing that the pistons spin and is connected to the transmission )
superchargers r a bit sluggish
turbos r wayyy faster
plus superchargers have a design flaw in them
turbos just push air into the enigne
a supercharger first compresses the air and then throws it inside the engine
that heats the air up considerably
and heated air is bad for ur engine
knocking aati hai whn the intake air is too hot
for LOW HP gains both r fine turbo and superchargers
but for HIGH HP gains turbo is the way to go
cuz supercharger starts to lose its efficeincy after a certain "boost level"(refer to 1st post for the defination of boost)
TURBO CHARGER=TURBO

well turbo chargers arent that cheap cuz the fan has to be hosted by a very sophisticated type of bearing
u hav to avoid any kind of friction
plus it has to built wid VERY VERY high quality materials cuz the whn ur cruising around at 5500 rpms in ur car
the turbo is spinning at excess of 20 THOUSAND rpms!!!

big ass performance increase
well yes and no
that depends on the size of turbo u choose for ur car
turbo deosnt provide that xtra hp as soon as u press the throttle
u have to take ur engine to a certain rpm for the turbo to actually start compressing air
the bigger ur turbo is the later ur turbo will start makin that xtra hp
but whn it does itll make TONS of it
the smaller ur turbo is itll start makin power early
but wont make as much as the bigger turbo
the solution to this is an expensive newer kind of turbo
we call it ball bearing turbos
in these turbos the fan is hosted by special kinds of ball bearings which hav almost no friction
issiliye u can make power frm a bigger turbo earlier in the rpm range
but ofcourse they r expensive too

usually a vti's engine(stock 125HP) can make around 205 hp safely and easily
a 205 hp civic is a VERY VERY fast car
i mean ull be hangin wid expensive sports cars in a drag
if u wanna go above 205 hp ull have to strenghten the engine it self by taking out the pistons and rods which r made of cast iron
and replaceing them by stronger forged steel parts
then the sky's the limit
but ofcourse itll cost u!!!
REFERENCE:rashid whn had the older 1.5vtec sohc cam engien wid a turbo was makin around 290 hp
and whn dragged wid the silver skyline he only lost by half a car length
and that was cuz of the skylines 4 wheel drive system(no wheel spin in 1st and 2nd gear)
in 3rd gear the civic actually caught up to the skyline

whn turboing a car u dont hav to get the turbo charger only
u need tons of other stuff to complete the kit too
like electronics which increase fuel according to the xtra air the turbo is pushing in
issiliye the more hp u want the more money ull hav to shell out
waise a basic kit frm greddy which will get u around 180HP on ur vti
and because its a complete kit frm a big comany ull get warranty ke it wont harm ur engine in anyway
will cost u around 90 thousand

adn spyn psycle
these fancy names r given to normal turbo systems by big companies
it looks like ur car has a sort of electrically powered turbo
agar fuse waghairah ka chakkar hai to
laikin dats highly unlikely cuz electric turbos r a failed concept
issiliye cant help u dere untill u giive me details

HOW NOS WORKS

and NO nitrous oxide(NO2) it self is NOT flammable
it just speeds up the comubustion process
outside pak whr they have proper NOS filling stations
not only NO2 is filled in ur cylinder also a compuond of sulphur
that MIXTURE is somewhat(not very) flammable
but we here in pak only have NO2 in pure form available
and NO2 is NOT flammable

HuMaYuN! · #11 04-01-05, 08:24 AM

1337 post!!!!

Well i have to go to school right now will post some more Q's when i come back!

Mobius · #12 04-01-05, 08:14 PM

thanks for clearing it u badboy,this means that when the turbo pump is on, my car is consuming more fuel. duh. i have another question, does the traction control affect performance or fuel consumption? what about cruise control? and if i take out the turbo's fuse, the car sez "CHECK FUSBOX 3" and then "REDUCED ENGINE PERFORMANCE". then it drives normally, except it wont go above 2,500 in automatic transmission. is that bad? how much fuel will it save considering it goes upto 4.5k rpm with the fuse in?

badboy4life · #13 04-01-05, 10:21 PM

yes whn the turbo is working ur car will be guzzling down fuel
and tranction control wont affect ur fuel avg
but it will slow u down only in 1st gear
beacuse as soon as ur wheels start to spin off the line power to teh wheels will be cut down by the traction control
cruise control will help ALOT in terms of fuel economy
i have personal experience wid this
i used to own a 2002 merc e class bak in 2002
we usually took it to the motorway
wid cruise control on and speed locked at 130kmph the car gave an avg of 13.5kmpl
but widout cruise control it gave sumthin like 11kmph
and yes i suspected the tranny to cut down on rmps whn the trubo wasnt working cuz
the fuel management system of ur car is programmed to run wid a trubo which starts makin power after 2500rpm's
whn the turbo is not detected by the car's computer it doesnt let u go upto the turbo range
changes gears b4 the turbos working range

EDIT:MODS PLZ CHANGE THE TOPIC TO HOW TURBO'S MAKE POWER AND STICKY IT !!!

Mobius · #14 04-01-05, 11:17 PM

so what do u suggest i do? take the fuse out? i understand this would reduce fuel consumption considerably on a 3.5liter engine since it will stay in a lower rpm range. (i can take the car above 2500 rpm in manual tranny mode btw). what i really want is to save a little money on fuel, so i can spend it elsewhere. and could you email me you hotmail address please?

Mobius · #15 04-01-05, 11:20 PM

on another note, i vote badboy4life for the mod of this section... everyone else here is usually a poser. i remember a poser called typeR who used to be here. i wonder where hes gone now...