Programmer???

[Non-techie]

How exactly do one become a programmer?

Regards,
Non-techie

[towelie]

aaa .... standard stuff ..... sell your soul , give away all rights to a personal life , give up any hope of ever getting laid ....

....

....

learn how computers work.
learn a programming language.
learn the old art of "divide and conquer"
and be really passionate about solving problems.

[jin_baba]

Originally Posted by Non-techie

How exactly do one become a programmer?

Regards,
Non-techie

by programming...of course

[Fraz]

Originally Posted by Non-techie

How exactly do one become a programmer?

Regards,
Non-techie

Never think that you can not do what others can ... and u can become
anything but you should opt for something that suits your life and personality
so that u can excel rather than feeling it as a burden ...

On my personal experience although programming looks very attractive and
interesting in the beginning but with the passage of time you start getting
weary of it ...

[crippler]

Study the subject...and also it is important that you should know which field of programming you want to get into...

[Non-techie]

Originally Posted by crippler

Study the subject...and also it is important that you should know which field of programming you want to get into...

Fields of programming? Any example, please?

[crippler]

Originally Posted by Non-techie

Fields of programming? Any example, please?

When go for a computer science degree, you are offered to study various courses i.e C++, .Net, etc then you take your major courses and graduate with that language expertise.

If you want just a single course and not a degree then you need to decide whether you want it just for personal use (shughal) or you want to persue a career in it.

CS grads can add more information!!

[towelie]

@techie(non) :

Do you mean becoming a programmer professionally and adopting it as a career ? or just for once-in-a-while programming.

[Non-techie]

Programmer
Software Developer
Software Engineer
Systems Analyst

Refer to same thing?

Originally Posted by towelie

@techie(non) :

Do you mean becoming a programmer professionally and adopting it as a career ? or just for once-in-a-while programming.

Adopting prog.ing as a career.

[towelie]

In market terms :

(First three of these titles are pretty loosely defined, but I'll try my best)

Programmer, Software Developer == someone without any formal CS training who picked up programming and pursued it as a career.

Software Engineer == someone with a CS degree pursuing a career writing software.

Systems Analyst == someone who doesn't usually write code but analyzes customer requirements and DESIGNS the solution for them. The SEs will then write code to implement that solution.



So If you want to get into the field professionally, you'll have to get a BS in Computer Science (hopefully from a recognized University). During your studies, you'll study different languages such as C++, Assembly, Java, C# or others.

By the time you graduate, you'll have to specialize yourself in one of two main tracks / fields :

1) Embedded Development (Writing C/C++, Assembly)

2) Enterprise Development (Writing C#, VB.net, Web development with ASP.net/PHP)

Embedded development is a bit harder because it involves writing low-level machine code and interfacing with hardware. This kind of job requires VERY good knowledge of computer architecture and good C++ programming skills. Finding a job is initially a bit harder because there arent many companies here doing such work, but once you get into the field, pay scales are better than .NET developers. You'll also have a better chance to get into places like Microsoft , Google and electronics giants like Siemens / GE etc .

.NET developers have an easier life , developing enterprise level apps that help companies operate more efficiently by automating workflows etc. But if you dont specialize yourself quickly, you'll get lost in an ocean of other .NET developers and your pay scales wont be real good. If you specialize, then you can get to be an analyst and go up the corporate ladder.

Hope this helps.

[Non-techie]

Just a question...who are usually more sought after, SEs or SDs?

I think, I'll go for SE and S.Analysts.

[luv2xlr8]

to be honest in Pakistan designations really don't matter. an SE, SD, SA all do the same things with a couple added responsibilities which eventually doesn't matter. Each company have there own way of calling the same developer with different designation. Only a handful of companies in Pakistan specifically outline the job descriptions of what an SE would do, what a SA would do, otherwise is its a designation.

And then programming specifically is not a profession, its what you do to solve different problems in different domains one you have realized it i.e. the problem.

Well yes in 3rd world countries like Pakistan, we do emphasize on programming alot because we the SEs and SDs have to do the so called donkey work (coding), most of the designing, documentation, analysis is already done on the "on sites" offices in US or Europe etc. for whom we are working for.. So here in Pakistan we talk about programming language expertise with respect to C/C++, Java, .Net and now a days you see a lot of PHP, Ruby


If you actually try to understand what a Software Engineer is, a SE is a person who actually design systems (software systems) from the highest level of abstraction which can be a diagram to little bits and bytes. and once you have to put it in actual shape (the actual software) then you decide which programming language to use, tools and technologies all that. So what a SE does in Pakistan is mostly the last part, CODE !!

[Fraz]

Originally Posted by luv2xlr8

to be honest in Pakistan designations really don't matter. an SE, SD, SA all do the same things with a couple added responsibilities which eventually doesn't matter. Each company have there own way of calling the same developer with different designation. Only a handful of companies in Pakistan specifically outline the job descriptions of what an SE would do, what a SA would do, otherwise is its a designation.

And then programming specifically is not a profession, its what you do to solve different problems in different domains one you have realized it i.e. the problem.

Well yes in 3rd world countries like Pakistan, we do emphasize on programming alot because we the SEs and SDs have to do the so called donkey work (coding), most of the designing, documentation, analysis is already done on the "on sites" offices in US or Europe etc. for whom we are working for.. So here in Pakistan we talk about programming language expertise with respect to C/C++, Java, .Net and now a days you see a lot of PHP, Ruby


If you actually try to understand what a Software Engineer is, a SE is a person who actually design systems (software systems) from the highest level of abstraction which can be a diagram to little bits and bytes. and once you have to put it in actual shape (the actual software) then you decide which programming language to use, tools and technologies all that. So what a SE does in Pakistan is mostly the last part, CODE !!

QFT ... in Pakistan sometimes a person Analyzes, Designs, develops and even implements a software under any
same job title ... which is not the right thing to do and in most cases it results into failures at certain level of System
development life cycle ...

[Non-techie]

Thank you for your replies, your answers have explained a lot.

Regards,
Non-techie

[EvaNgeList]

Bhaiyo, it's slightly depressing to read what some of you guys have written about the Tech industry in Pakistan.

If you really want to be successful in the industry, you have to create a niche for yourself, specialize in a couple of technologies, but also have the flexibility to be able to learn newer technologies, frameworks and patterns.

Also, there's a lot more to being a Software Engineer than just being a coder. You have to be good at designing software (so that your software is robust, secure and maintainable), usability (so that users can actually understand and USE what you develop), writing tests and testing (so that your software is as defect free as possible) and lots of other things.

Remember, the purpose of any 'computer school' that you go to shouldn't be to teach you a particular language, it should be to enable you to learn on your own and adapt to changing trends in the industry. The school should teach you the fundamentals. It is up to you to build on those. For e.g. in my BSc, we did most of our assignments in C, C++, Java. After joining the industry, I've not wrote a single line of C or C++, and the 1.5 years I spent writing Java was web development based on a J2EE stack, which is nothing like writing console applications for homework assignments, so my point is that you have to do a lot of on the job learning.

Also, don't be a total geek and only be interested in programming. Pakistani developers have a huge deficiency in communication skills. I remember I met a FAST CS guy at a TOEFL test center, and he was like "CS people don't need to know English". Nothing could be further from the truth. You need to be able to communicate well in order to survive and climb up in a corporate environment. You need to be able to market yourself well.

Also, in the last couple of years, the trend in our desi industry is changing in that LOTS of startups are popping up all over Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad, and some of them are providing a very good environment (both technically and financially) for software engineers to work in.

The most important thing for a software engineer however, is pride in your work and having the urge to produce quality work. For some of us, coming up with good code might take slightly longer, but believe me, in the long run, it always, ALWAYS pays off.

Whew, that was a huge rant, hope it made some sense ...