WTF: Israel Attack on Gaza

[Kursed]

Terrorists remain terrorists, even if they use F-16s to achieve their objectives, as lolcat has put it quite vividly.

[towelie]

Everyone's stances are not flip-flop based.

Just because someone criticizes religion doesn't mean they are pro-Israel or pro-USA.

The Palestinian people's right of self determination and their fight against Israel is legitimate. However, that does not absolve Hamas of all wrongdoing.

You have to realize that no party in any conflict is a blameless angel. Conflicts over land/resources/ideologies have existed for millennia. Eventually one side overpowers the other and kicks (or exterminates) the other side out. That's how the world works. Face it.

The Israelis took over the land from the Palestinians, who had conquered it from the Christians, who had displaced the Jews , who in turn probably grabbed it from some pagans. At every step, the previous owners were massacred.


Now, the decent thing the Israelis could've done after taking over was to settle with the Palestinians and integrate them into their new social structure. Instead they put them into concentration camps and started a slow, drawn out extermination. In such a situation, the Palestinians have no other way than to fight back with sticks and stones.

So what do you want us to do for them ? Go fight a holy war against the Israelis ? The so called Arab brethren of the Palestinians didn't even bother condemning the recent aggression. It's every man for himself. There's no such thing as "global muslim bhai-bhai solidarity".

So you say you want to take the issue to the security council and put sanctions on Israel ? How many friends do you have in the Security Council ? Do you have the military might to impose sanctions ? Do you have the diplomatic clout to start a coalition of willing nations against Israel ? The OIC wouldnt even be able to create a coalition of willing nations against malaria.

So my advice to everyone is. Stop bitching about the hypocricy of the west. If you like the Palestinians so much, go join Hamas. Otherwise, focus on your own house. Clean up your own act. Build a strong educated society based on democratic values. When you are strong enough to stand up against your enemies in about 300 years. By all means, wipe them out.

[Ikram45]

Very brutal indeed. what do these fuckers want from us? they think we are Terrorist?

[AmplifiedtoRock]

Originally Posted by towelie

Everyone's stances are not flip-flop based.

Just because someone criticizes religion doesn't mean they are pro-Israel or pro-USA.

The Palestinian people's right of self determination and their fight against Israel is legitimate. However, that does not absolve Hamas of all wrongdoing.

You have to realize that no party in any conflict is a blameless angel. Conflicts over land/resources/ideologies have existed for millennia. Eventually one side overpowers the other and kicks (or exterminates) the other side out. That's how the world works. Face it.

The Israelis took over the land from the Palestinians, who had conquered it from the Christians, who had displaced the Jews , who in turn probably grabbed it from some pagans. At every step, the previous owners were massacred.


Now, the decent thing the Israelis could've done after taking over was to settle with the Palestinians and integrate them into their new social structure. Instead they put them into concentration camps and started a slow, drawn out extermination. In such a situation, the Palestinians have no other way than to fight back with sticks and stones.

So what do you want us to do for them ? Go fight a holy war against the Israelis ? The so called Arab brethren of the Palestinians didn't even bother condemning the recent aggression. It's every man for himself. There's no such thing as "global muslim bhai-bhai solidarity".

So you say you want to take the issue to the security council and put sanctions on Israel ? How many friends do you have in the Security Council ? Do you have the military might to impose sanctions ? Do you have the diplomatic clout to start a coalition of willing nations against Israel ? The OIC wouldnt even be able to create a coalition of willing nations against malaria.

So my advice to everyone is. Stop bitching about the hypocricy of the west. If you like the Palestinians so much, go join Hamas. Otherwise, focus on your own house. Clean up your own act. Build a strong educated society based on democratic values. When you are strong enough to stand up against your enemies in about 300 years. By all means, wipe them out.

We have the right to raise our voices against Israeli terrorism just like you have the right to raise your opinion about everything you think is negative in Islam. And about your "join hammas" thing, you are an atheist , hate islam , as evident from you threads in here, still live in KSA.Why no go somewhere else?

What israel is doing is wrong and in this thread we are discussing THAT.

P.S. Yes west is hypocrite.You can bash islam in the name of freedom of speach but hey, can you openly deny holocaust ...... No.... Because it hurts dear Zionists.

[towelie]

We have the right to raise our voices against Israeli terrorism just like you have the right to raise your opinion about everything you think is negative in Islam.

By all means, protest, I will join you. However, empty slogans and emotional speeches will do no good for the Palestinians. They need real help , like the help the American revolutionaries got from the French ; not food and blankets.
P.S My post had nothing to do with religion.

And about your "join hammas" thing, you are an atheist , hate islam , as evident from you threads in here, still live in KSA.Why no go somewhere else?

By saying that, you are validating the mindset of the Israelis (that Israel is holy Jewish land, Palestinians have no right to live there).
P.S My post had nothing to do with religion.

What israel is doing is wrong and in this thread we are discussing THAT.

That is exactly what I was discussing.

P.S. Yes west is hypocrite.You can bash islam in the name of freedom of speach but hey, can you openly deny holocaust ...... No.... Because it hurts dear Zionists.

Everyone is a hypocrite. Everyone pursues his personal/national interest. Are you saying that policies of "eastern" nations are not hypocritical ? Let's talk about your beloved Saudi Arabia [see: Philby Plan] for example !


Freedoms in this world are only "allowed" as long as they don't intersect the objectives of those in power.
P.S My post had nothing to do with religion or islam bashing.

[eff-kay]

Originally Posted by towelie

Freedoms in this world are only "allowed" as long as they don't intersect the objectives of those in power.

deserves a rep!

[hsyed26]

I'd agree with towelie here. You cannot absolve both parties from any wrong doing. Do you know why the world is "biased" towards the Jews? Not because they went guns and blood hunting for all of Hitler's cronies after WWII. They played a sympathy factor card to the world. They made the world guilty, and that is key in letting them live. The entire history of Jerusalem is frought with constant takeovers and battles, and nothing will change that. Regardless of however powerful a modern nation-state may be, this conflict will continue. Since religion is such a prominent factor in everyone's lives and it is so wound up in the region's bloodlines and ethnicity, no amount of love can fix it. This power struggle will remain forever.

An empty speech is not going to help. You provide an active voice of Islam and go out and confront people about the beliefs they have about Islam. Do it logically and admit your mistakes. Don't shy away from the fact people have misinterpreted it, and admit we have our problems. Present a sane face. If someone criticizes your religion, grow a pair and admit it. I often complain about how a double standard exists for our followers, it's OK to make fun of the Jews, Christians and Hindus, etc but holy crap, if someone makes a valid criticism about Islam, KILLLLLL THEEEEMMMMMMMMM!. Take the criticism since you criticize them, or otherwise, don't make fun/criticize them. Adopt a standard, not a double one.

Saudi Arabia keeps being hailed as some sort of savior on these forums. Not all of them, but a majority of the decision making guys are damn sneaky about their foreign policy. If the Saudis were grateful, they'd grant the Palestinians dual nationality so that at least the Palestinian struggle would get a strong educated and well financed base to counter Israeli policies. Rather than that, they've forced them to be international refugees claiming that this way they have a "valid" claim to be in Jerusalem. Double standard much? The Israelis did the direct opposite, they became citizens of whichever country accepted them, and built their empire financially and politically. They studied well and focused on long-term growth. As a result, they have the world's ear. Why can't the Muslim nation do this? Because we're too busy killing of the potential leaders of our "brotherhood" through suicide bombings and jihad.

\rant over

This argument has nothing to do with religion. Simply put, real politik trumps everything. If you want to support them, channel your energies into becoming part of the system the Israelis work with and trump their moves there. Not with an AK-47 but your brain.

i'm done.

[crippler]

Exactly my point people... its not about religion anymore... its about nationalism. If we do not condemn Israel and get our act together then it will be us in place of Palestine next time. India has the same mindset as Israel that Pakistan is theirs to begin with and they want it back.

But having said that, Might is the key word for every nation... just because we have a nuclear weapon is the sole reason for our survival now but we must get into the mindset of saving our land by becoming more responsible in our own selves. If we do not take responsibility personally for the development of this nation then the statement of "failed state" is not that far away...

[AmplifiedtoRock]

Ok, this isnt confirmed but apparently a fax was sent to a hospital in Gaza telling them that they will bomb it.

here is the article.:

CTV.ca News Staff

A doctor inside Gaza says hospitals have been so overwhelmed with victims of Israel's three-day military campaign that people are being operated on in the hallways of medical buildings.

Dr. Eyad El-Sarraj, a psychiatrist at the Gaza Mental Health Center, said more than 400 people have been killed since the aerial assault began Saturday.

The Associated Press lists the death toll at 315.

"The situation is so bad that doctors have made makeshift operating theatres in the corridors of the hospitals because there is no beds to treat patients," El-Sarraj told CTV Newsnet in an interview Monday afternoon.

He said the main hospital in Gaza also received a fax from Israel that part of the hospital will be bombed.
He said he was yet to confirm if reports that the hospital was to be evacuated were true.

El-Sarraj called on Israel to allow medical aid to be brought into Gaza via the International Red Cross.

"We need doctors, we need surgeons, we need medical equipment, surgical equipment as soon as possible," he said.

El-Sarraj said Gaza was besieged for the last 18 months by the Israelis so medical facilities are not up to the required standards to deal with so many people injured -- reportedly more than 1,400.

Air strikes by Israel

On Monday, Israel's air force destroyed a house next to the Hamas premier's residence, a security compound and a five-story building at a university linked to the militant group.

Israel began the campaign against the Palestinians on Saturday in response to ongoing rocket fire out of Gaza targeting southern Israeli towns.

Oded Eran, a spokesperson for Israel's Foreign Ministry, said the bombing campaign will end when the rocket attacks stop.

He said Israel has been under attack by rockets for more than eight years.

"How long would the Canadian government restrain itself if the Canadian civilian population would've been under attack from any other neighbour?" Eran asked in an interview with CTV Newsnet on Monday.

Israeli defense minister Ehud Barak said the campaign was not aimed at the residents of Gaza but rather "against Hamas and its branches."

He said the current battle would be a "war to the bitter end."

CTV's Middle East Bureau Chief Janis Mackey Frayer reported Monday that Israel has been amassing tanks, troops, and armoured bulldozers at the border with Gaza in recent days.

"Israel is saying it wants to create a new reality on the ground which is why there is the threat at least of a major ground offensive that may follow the aerial campaign," she said from Ashkelon, about 15 kilometres north of Gaza.

"... Israel certainly doesn't want to get tangled in a ground war but they're saying that they're not ruling out any possibilities."

Meanwhile, despite the bombings, Hamas has not eased rocket fire against Israel.

On Monday, the group launched rockets at Ashkelon, killing a man and wounding several others.

The man was the first person ever to be killed by a rocket in Ashkelon, which has a population of about 120,000.

According to Israel's Foreign Ministry, 17 people have been killed in attacks from Gaza in 2008, including nine civilians and eight soldiers. Six of the dead were killed by rockets.

A senior exiled Hamas official said Monday the rocket attacks won't stop until Israel stops bombing Gaza.

Moussa Abu Marzouk, speaking to AP in an interview in Damascus, said Palestinian fighters have a right to strike Israel in response to its deadly assault on Gaza.

Israeli elections

The conflict comes as Israel prepares for an election in February.

Former Canadian ambassador to Israel Michael Bell said the pressure on the government to act against Hamas has been intense.

"In other words, Israelis expected their country, their leaders to react forcefully. I don't think they had much choice in terms of domestic opinion in the electoral campaign," Bell told CTV's Canada AM from Ottawa on Monday.

He called Israel's offensive in Gaza "counterproductive."

"These attacks might give some kind of temporary satisfaction to the Israelis who feel something is being done but in the long run they solve nothing," Bell said.

"They simply increase the level of resentment, the angst and anguish that Gazans feel and I think in the long run they strengthen Hamas rather than weaken it."

While many Arabs are outraged at the attacks, Bell said he thinks the governments of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority are likely hoping that the Israelis are successful in decapitating Hamas.

"I don't think they will be but it's the most immediate, easiest attempt at a solution," Bell said.

"Diplomacy is long and hard, one has to accommodate the other, it's very difficult it's frustrating but I think in the long run that is the only answer if in fact there is an answer to this terrible conundrum."

With files from The Associated Press

[MtRtMk]

“I expected nothing from the international community, the Arab world and Muslims. It is not adequate anyhow; they just shout and burn flags.”
Nida' Aniss Abu al-Atta, 26, Gaza City, projects officer

Originally Posted by AmplifiedtoRock

Ok, this isnt confirmed but apparently a fax was sent to a hospital in Gaza telling them that they will bomb it.

Israeli phone calls spread panic | The Australian
"Leave your house; it will be bombed soon."
"This is psychological warfare," Linda al-Ghais, 32, a microbiologist and mother of three living in Gaza City, said. "We don't know if it's true or not, if they'll bomb us or not. Everyone is very frightened."

It is Psy-ops, the peaceful denizens of Israel are coming up with new ways of terrorizing people. Bombs simply aren’t enough. These are not warning calls, they are meant to terrorize. Random phone campaigns, they did it before in Syria and Lebanon
Israel using cell phones to caution Gazans intelNews.org

Al Jazeera English - Focus - Gazans: 'We are living a nightmare'
---“I expected nothing from the international community, the Arab world and Muslims. It is not adequate anyhow; they just shout and burn flags.”
---Two of my neighbours were killed on their way back from school - sixteen-year-old Yasmeen and her sister, 15-year-old Haneen. They were innocent girls.
--- Life is precious and worth fighting for. All I seek in these moments is for the truth to get out there. Let it be known that in the 21st century this is happening while the whole world is watching but remains silent. I wonder how cheap Palestinian blood is."
---The children, my nephew and niece, are so scared. They hide under the beds, terrified, and I can do nothing to help them, except to sing soothing words to them. But nothing can help them in this situation.
---“Eight of our students were killed by a rocket as they left their classrooms to get the bus home.”
---“While the Israeli response has been beyond any expectations, it is just an episode in a bigger project which aims to kill people's will and turn them into cattle whose top priority is not to resist the occupation but just to survive.”

IslamonLine.net
It is obvious that the ongoing Israeli attacks on Gaza are very different in many ways from previous attacks in both Gaza and West Bank. This is a campaign not witnessed since 1967. First, the scale of attack and air raids is immense. Israel until now has dropped about 500 tons of explosives on Gaza. They have dropped bombs that weigh up to one ton from F 16 fighter jets. Second, they dropped these explosives on institutions during work hours.They targeted all kinds of institutions, even houses of worship. Today alone, Israelis bombed 5 mosques. A prominent mosque is in Jabalia and a nearby house was completely demolished and five girls inside were killed, one of them is 4 years old.

Israeli Death Haunts Gaza Kids - IslamOnline.net - News
"He was vomiting blood from his nose and mouth. 'Save me Hazem' – these were his last words before he died," he remembered with tear-soaking eyes."I will never forget his eyes and his faint voice asking for help."

Israel inflicts mass suffering on Palestinian population
"Girls around me screamed in horror ... Some of my classmates ran out of the university, fearing their lives, but were killed by Israeli missiles as they fled."
"One of the injured at the hospital was a little boy heading home from school," he continued. "Terrified and unable to see due to his injury, the boy was shaking and holding on to anything alive. However, I think holding his hand helped me more than it helped him; I didn't have the words to comfort him. When doctors were able to attend to the boy, I promised him he would be OK. The next thing I knew, his little weak body, deprived of life, was lying on the hospital's cold floor. Was his crime being born Palestinian?"


This was before even the present bombing genocide began:

9 Dec 2008, The Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights on Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, Richard Falk, issued the following statement:
http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/hurica...2?opendocument
The recent upsurge of violence occurred after an Israeli incursion that killed several alleged Palestinian militants within Gaza.


HOLOCAUST
June 29, 2007
Richard Falk, Slouching toward a Palestinian Holocaust
Against this background, it is especially painful for me, as an American Jew, to feel compelled to portray the ongoing and intensifying abuse of the Palestinian people by Israel through a reliance on such an inflammatory metaphor as ‘holocaust.’
Is it an irresponsible overstatement to associate the treatment of Palestinians with this criminalized Nazi record of collective atrocity? I think not.
It is far worse because the international community is watching the ugly spectacle unfold while some of its most influential members actively encourage and assist Israel in its approach to Gaza. Not only the United States, but also the European Union, are complicit, as are such neighbors as Egypt and Jordan apparently motivated by their worries that Hamas is somehow connected with their own problems associated with the rising strength of the Muslim Brotherhood within their own borders.
It is this prospect that makes appropriate the warning of a Palestinian holocaust in the making, and should remind the world of the famous post-Nazi pledge of ‘never again.’

Richard Falk: My expulsion from Israel | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
My expulsion from Israel by Richard Falk
The purpose of my reports is to document on behalf of the UN the urgency of the situation in Gaza and elsewhere in occupied Palestine. Such work is particularly important now as there are signs of a renewed escalation of violence and even of a threatened Israeli reoccupation.

The HOLOCAUST Falk warned of has already begun.

[Badista]

Nobody's stopping them....cause US is its greatest ally

[Fookie]

Both fighting factions are terrorists in disguise. But we all know who the real aggressor has been in the Middle East for the past 60 years.


Israel enters Gaza tonight. Lets all pray again for the miracle that took place 2 years ago in Lebanon. If they were defeated then- it can happen again. At least we can take 2 mins to pray it does.

[MtRtMk]

Israel testing nasty weapons in Gaza, claims Mads Gilbert | The Australian
"There's a very strong suspicion I think that Gaza is now being used as a test laboratory for new weapons,"
...they had seen clear signs that Dense Inert Metal Explosives (DIME), an experimental kind of explosive, were being used in Gaza.

Warning very graphic content

YouTube - Aljazeera Host Affected by images of Gaza Children killed by Israeli Soldiers 7/1/2009

These are targeted killings. Humanity is dead.