Bomb Blast in Islamabad Marriott Hotel

[funxlab]

Fedian-a-Islam (ever heard this name before?) has accepted the responsibility of Marriot Attack, thank you, a big mystery solved. So lets quickly assume it is something registered in FATA. Are Talibans getting so coward to accept the responsibility .. Mr Rehman Malik ????



Note: It will take us 3 months to forget this unknown name "Fedian-a-Islam".
In future we will hear many new names with "Islam" in it

[Kursed]

So who do you think was behind this attack, Mr. funxlab?

[smokenfog]

Originally Posted by KuRsEd

He's just covering the statement made by the Prime Minister the other day. Rehman Malik, in a press conference, after the blasts told press reporters that the hotel was in fact the primary target for the suicide bombing. This, while the Prime Minister of Pakistan, in his usual bid to claim sympathy for the government, went on a tirade claiming how the terrorists wanted to target the democratic forces in the country. And the the parliament was the primary target for the terrorists.

Their contradictory statements were later played up by different tv stations, which made then made the government to come out, retract home ministry's earlier stance and make a new claim.

Change in plans reportedly saved Pakistani leaders - Yahoo! News
Am sure they had some kind of intelligence warning about high level attack but i dont think its so practical and simple to pinpoint where and when the attack ll happen and its quite logical to consider that terrorists are going to attack Parliament house coz they wanna target the main leadership of Pakistan ...

Its just too hard to exactly foresee that EXACTLY where and when a Heaven seeking mission is going to happen ... Dont u think so?

[MummyDaddy]

In the heat of the moment, we should not lose our objectivity, nor should we let blind rage become a substitute for a careful analysis of the situation that currently exists viz. the Taliban.

A few things have become abundantly clear over the last two years. Firstly, the Taliban are a menace that must be eradicated in order to protect the rights and security of the people of Pakistan. Secondly, the Taliban are a home-grown menace. While they may have the support of Al-Qaeda or militant elements within Afghanistan, the fact remains that the militants in FATA and the suicide bombers across the country have been Pakistanis. Thirdly, any support that is extended to the Taliban, out of misguided strategic calculations made by the military, or out of sympathy, will only worsen the situation. If the Taliban are now in a position to strike fear into the hearts of all Pakistanis, striking at will across the country, it is precisely because they have been nurtured and ignored for the last twenty-five years.

29 suicide attacks have taken place in Pakistan this year alone. This is in addition to the 56 that took place last year. The death toll from suicide attacks in Pakistan in this time period has been far higher than it was in Iraq or Afghanistan. Meanwhile, the Taliban continue to wage war in FATA, challenging the writ of the state as part of their campaign to impose Sharia law in the country.

That the Taliban must be fought should be clear to anyone. How they are fought is, however, a question that needs some careful thought. Let's be realistic for a second... we are talking about a part of the world in which the most powerful armies of the world have been bogged down. The British and the Russians were bled dry by the Pakhtuns, and America and NATO are looking defeat in the face in Afghanistan. Capable as it may be, is the Pakistan army really equipped to win this war?

Let me add another dimension to this question. Can a war really be won without winning the hearts and minds of the people caught in the middle? While we may (rightly) decry the loss of innocent life in suicide bombings, what of the innocents who have been killed in Bajaur, Wana, South Waziristan, and Swat? While the blame for the conflict can and should be laid at the feet of the Taliban, there are signs that many amongst the local populace are enraged with the heavy-handed approach adopted by the military and the US. This is compounded by the extremely high number of people who have been displaced by the conflict, and who have now been reduced to living a nomadic existence bereft of any safety or stability.

After all, why are the Taliban a home-grown menace? Everyone knows about the madrassahs and training camps that were set up in the 1980s? Why is it that these institutions continue to churn out militants at this juncture in history? Part of the fault lies with the state in Pakistan, and its reluctance to dismantle this apparatus of terror. Part of the problem, however, can also be traced to the way in which the state has also historically neglected FATA. When there are no schools, hospitals, or courts, doesn't it make sense to turn to a group of religious zealots who provide food, shelter, and 'schooling' to the young? And hasn't religion always had a particularly powerful resonance amongst the poor and oppressed?

I do not, by any stretch of the imagination, want to justify what is being done by the Taliban. Those who defend the Taliban, either out of religious fervour or a misplaced belief that they resist the Imperialism of the US, are naieve at best and collaborators at worst. There is nothing religious about the Taliban, and their 'resistance' is nothing more than a sham; a facade used to mask their pernicious ideology.

By highlighting the need for a 'development' offensive in FATA, I simply wish to point out that until steps are taken to eradicate the roots of terror in FATA, and unless the institutional appartaus of the Taliban is reformed, replaced, or removed, this problem is not going to go away. As collateral damage mounts, public opinion in the area will swing against the state. And then we'll not just be fighting the Taliban, but the local population as well.

At present, there are indications that the local populace within FATA is sick of the Taliban and is willing to fight them. The government must capitalise on this, and use its resources to provide state patronage to tribes that stand against the Taliban. FATA must be absorbed into the union, and must be given a reason to belong to the federation, if the government intends to hold on to it. If it keeps employing force indiscriminately, it will continue to alienate local supporters, and will continue to fuel the fires propelling the Taliban's recruitment drive.

Also, the government must distance itself from the US, and prevent any further violations of Pakistan's territorial sovreignty. If it fails to do this, the war against the Taliban, which is our war, will increasingly be seen as America's war. And that is a perception that must not be allowed to take root.

MD

[smokenfog]

Originally Posted by funxlab

Fedian-a-Islam (ever heard this name before?) has accepted the responsibility of Marriot Attack, thank you, a big mystery solved. So lets quickly assume it is something registered in FATA. Are Talibans getting so coward to accept the responsibility .. Mr Rehman Malik ????



Note: It will take us 3 months to forget this unknown name "Fedian-a-Islam".
In future we will hear many new names with "Islam" in it

Oh yeah ... and u have first hand information about who conducted the attack? Right? Hmmm Pakistani Army did it? right? or lets pick the easiest target ... zardari planned it coz he wanted that place to expand his presidential palace ... Or Jews or Americans killed their marines coz they were going to convert to Islam ...

[Kursed]

MD - Don't you believe that development will only take root in these areas after giving a certain set back to the ideology practiced by Taliban?

Cases in point being burning down of schools, refusal to give children polio shots and destroying electricity towers in FATA. What drives them to act in such manner? It's the ideology that tells them that any development done, on part of the government, is again a conspiracy against their religious designs.

Look at the rest of Pakistan. It's already difficult to conduct development projects in settled and relatively peaceful areas of Pakistan. How do you reckon, the government can make a substantial contribution towards upbringing of such areas - where this mentality set is prevalent?

[smokenfog]

Originally Posted by KuRsEd

MD - Don't you believe that development will only take root in these areas after giving a certain set back to the ideology practiced by Taliban?

Cases in point being burning down of schools, refusal to give children polio shots and destroying electricity towers in FATA. What drives them to act in such manner? It's the ideology that tells them that any development done, on part of the government, is again a conspiracy against their religious designs.

Look at the rest of Pakistan. It's already difficult to conduct development projects in settled and relatively peaceful areas of Pakistan. How do you reckon, the government can make a substantial contribution towards upbringing of such areas - where this mentality set is prevalent?

Now this is a concrete solution oriented statement ... MD is also absolutely right about the fact that its suicidal to use force against Pakhtuns, Fighting is their hobby ... Ideology is the main problem ... yea its clear that ideology is the main issue we need to tackle ... thing is we diagnosed the problem but we dont have any solution for that ... giving education, making people start using their minds to understand that Islam or any other religion doesn't allow killing, kidnapping or forceful imposition of one's views ... all such steps require long period of time and situation requires fast actions ...

The solution am rooting for is a engaging those militants in a political trap ... Divide them, weak them, develop some pro Govt groups there and start giving them power... change ur pathetic US slavery foreign policy ... Start developing relations with Russia and strengthen ur relationship with China ...

So far army is not fighting with people they are fighting with religion ... and strict ideology ... which is impossible to kill ...

[funxlab]

Originally Posted by KuRsEd

So who do you think was behind this attack, Mr. funxlab?

So you believe me or Rehman Malik ?

In the middle of market in my native town a 25-30 years old guy came from somewhere and killed an old 65 years old man. Before leaving he announced" Don't follow me, this man I killed was hiding in your town from last 25 years, he killed my grandfather"


Remember those 150 (govt claimed 83) students killed in Damadola 2 years back in shelling on a Madarassa? 90% of those killed were 7-15 years old kids.

After that in a big crowd 8000 (yes 8000) young tribal men swore on Quran for suicidal attacks to take the revenge. Now Should we stamp them as Talibans too. We kill them, we never feel bad about it, we never say sorry and we blame them all as all terrorist. How much coverage media gives to show the pain of families of those civilians killed in FATA ? 700 were killed in Bajoure only after POF blast, you saw any news item on media on it ? You see one line stories on your TV screen for those killed in FATA everyday .

If these people sitting in Intelligence agencies are really sincere in their efforts and as MummyDaddy said people in FATA are fed up of Talibans then why they haven't get Baitulllah Mahsood and Molvi Umer so far?

Accepting even a single attack ever executed by an individual whose family members are killed in attacks of PK army is like accepting the hatred of people of FATA for Pakistan Army and for those people who look towards the North every time there is a blast in Isb, Lhr, or Wah but these people close their eyes when 50, 60 innocent civilians are killed everyday with one or two Talibans.

First Suicide attacks in Pakistan were executed by Pakistan Army when Indian Tanks were entering Pakistani soil, now this Army is trying to save its lives from the suicide attacks on it probably by its own people.

[smokenfog]

In the middle of market in my native town a 25-30 years old guy came from somewhere and killed an old 65 years old man. Before leaving he announced" Don't follow me, this man I killed was hiding in your town from last 25 years, he killed my grandfather"

Animal Kingdom ...

After that in a big crowd 8000 (yes 8000) young tribal men swore on Quran for suicidal attacks to take the revenge.

So they started committing their stupid suicide missions against innocent civilians all ova country just to t6ake revenge from army? What are they stupid bastards? i cant believe someone who suffered from the death of his/her family member in some kinda attack wanna make others (who are not even connected to the attackers) suffer just like him/her ... You tell me, you ll come and kill me if (God forbid ... just suppose) someone from my university kill someone from ur family members (God forbid)?

This is sheer ignorance dude, this is reacting like wild animals ... and believe me these heaven seeking missions are infact justifying the (otherwise completely condemnable) use of force against these stupid mullahs and their evil madrassas ...

Now Should we stamp them as Talibans too

Yes ... come out of ur Bollywood and Sultan Rahi movie's attitude dude ... there is not justification of killing ... neither killing of madrassa kids by army nor killing of civilians by FATA's evil heads ... Rigid views and extremist attitude is definition of Talibaan ... the stupid dickheads who thinks they are "Owners of Islam" ... and they consider themselves only people who are following true Islam.

First Suicide attacks in Pakistan were executed by Pakistan Army when Indian Tanks were entering Pakistani soil, now this Army is trying to save its lives from the suicide attacks on it probably by its own people.

I remember one of the biggest dickhead of our times "Maulana Abdul Aziz" used this most stupid example to justify suicide attacks ... Dude that was war ... Army Vs Army ... there weren't any civilians involved in that ... one COUNTRY attacked on another and Soldiers tried to defend their land by doing whatever they can against the opposite ARMY ... For sense sake ... learn the difference between an army and civilians and try to teach this difference to ur tribesmen as well ...

As Kursed said, its the ideology that is the main problem ... ideology that its Islamic n justifiable to shed blood of ANYONE in the name of revenge ... Ideology that its a Jihad to impose ur religion with Bombs, Suicide attacks and Sword on anyone ... Ideology that USA attacked on ur madrassa and now u have license from religion and every other moral ground to kill anyone involved or not involved in that attack ... I wonder if these militants have anything called "Mind" ... or they are bunch of wild animals looking for anyone with different set of beliefs and views to kill them ...

Need is to change that ideology, need is to stop fighting and start honoring the peace agreements ... stop chanting out shariat courts, stop burning girls schools, need is to be a good Muslim and stop thinking abt correcting and making everyone else a good Muslim ... Need is to stop supporting rigid views and if u support them, keep them to urself, stop using stupid FM stations to be an owner of Islam ...

I know its not going to happen soon ... there is nothing wrong in dreaming about it though.

[MummyDaddy]

Originally Posted by KuRsEd

MD - Don't you believe that development will only take root in these areas after giving a certain set back to the ideology practiced by Taliban?

The question of ideology is an important one. Indeed, it is the most important one. How exactly do you fight an idea? One way is to destroy the means through which that idea is propagated. Another way is to replace the idea with a new one. If Islamism, as an ideology, is what drives the Taliban and causes them to blow things up, then the means through which this ideology is preached and propagated must be eliminated. That is why it is important to dismantle the network of madrassahs and training camps that exists in FATA. That is also why it is absolutely necessary to fill the resulting ideological void with a message that encourages peace and tolerance. FATA needs schools and hospitals, not bombs. Even if the Taliban are militarily destroyed, the institutions that gave birth to them will just spawn new recruits unless they too are dismantled.

Originally Posted by KuRsEd

Look at the rest of Pakistan. It's already difficult to conduct development projects in settled and relatively peaceful areas of Pakistan. How do you reckon, the government can make a substantial contribution towards upbringing of such areas - where this mentality set is prevalent?

Now this is the key point. Following on from what I've already written, dismantling the Taliban ideological apparatus is important precisely because their ideology is not widespread. I don't think that your average FATA citizen is anti-development, or has a problem with schools. To the extent that such an ideology is manifest, it is because the Taliban has been allowed to exercise an ideological hegemony over the area. If, concurrent with the destruction of the Taliban's ideological apparatus, a development initiative is launched in FATA, I am confident that it will not be taken apart due to any misplaced religious zeal. The process may take time, as pointed out by smokenfog, but it is the only way.

Originally Posted by smokenfog

The solution am rooting for is a engaging those militants in a political trap ... Divide them, weak them, develop some pro Govt groups there and start giving them power... change ur pathetic US slavery foreign policy ... Start developing relations with Russia and strengthen ur relationship with China ...

Yes, the government certainly needs to exploit differences within the ranks of the Taliban, and the resentment the local population have towards the Taliban.

Originally Posted by funxlab

So you believe me or Rehman Malik ?

After that in a big crowd 8000 (yes 8000) young tribal men swore on Quran for suicidal attacks to take the revenge. Now Should we stamp them as Talibans too. We kill them, we never feel bad about it, we never say sorry and we blame them all as all terrorist. How much coverage media gives to show the pain of families of those civilians killed in FATA ? 700 were killed in Bajoure only after POF blast, you saw any news item on media on it ? You see one line stories on your TV screen for those killed in FATA everyday .

This is completely true. What has happened in FATA is a tragedy. However, surely you can see that this is an escalating cycle of violence, in which both parties are to blame. The military is using force indiscriminately, but what about the Taliban who send impressionable young men to their deaths after filling their heads with visions of paradise, and who are willing to get innocent civilians killed in the crossfire but are not willing to surrender? The military does need to reevaluate its tactics, but that does not mean that the Taliban should be allowed to go unchecked.

Originally Posted by funxlab

If these people sitting in Intelligence agencies are really sincere in their efforts and as MummyDaddy said people in FATA are fed up of Talibans then why they haven't get Baitulllah Mahsood and Molvi Umer so far?

I'm sure they could have in the past. However, in the past, the Pakistan military was too busy playing a double game, bombing the Taliban while supporting them at the same time. Now, people like Baitullah Mahsood have gone underground. The press only gets access to spokesmen.

Originally Posted by funxlab

Accepting even a single attack ever executed by an individual whose family members are killed in attacks of PK army is like accepting the hatred of people of FATA for Pakistan Army and for those people who look towards the North every time there is a blast in Isb, Lhr, or Wah but these people close their eyes when 50, 60 innocent civilians are killed everyday with one or two Talibans.

That does not absolve the Taliban of their crimes. As I have said in my own posts, the stratgey in FATA needs to be reconsidered and more emphasis needs to be placed on winning the hearts and minds of the people. The Taliban's actions cannot be justified. They kill innocents, and are more than willing to ruin lives through the imposition of their parochial ideology. If they do not surrender peacefully, they should be fought.

MD

[Cateye]

@ MD ( i think kursed will agree with me )you people are missing the very basic problem...

Pak army do not consider TALIBAN as menace.. And IMO Pak Army start fighting actively inlast 2 years or so becasue there are people in disgusie of Taliban who are Anti Pakistan... & we are having this war because of US influnce ( economic influnce, military influnce bla bla ) but at the same point we have to think who is funding them ( taliban ).

[Kursed]

Originally Posted by funxlab

So you believe me or Rehman Malik ?

I believe in the fact that these people have the means to carry out such attacks. As to who is now financing and equipping them, that's another debate altogether.

Remember those 150 (govt claimed 83) students killed in Damadola 2 years back in shelling on a Madarassa? 90% of those killed were 7-15 years old kids. After that in a big crowd 8000 (yes 8000) young tribal men swore on Quran for suicidal attacks to take the revenge.

Committing a suicide attack is not exactly a child's play. It involves acts ranging from setting up the bomb, to making its trigger mechanism, sending recce missions to watch the target, setting up alternative methods of blasting the main load (in case the initial trigger fails), transporting the bomber to the target area, keeping him in a safe house until the time comes and not to forget, taking care of all logistical issues. All of these acts require not only particular know how of IEDs, ground information but money and a strong HumanINT network as well. Something which those 8,000 tribal do not have inside settled areas of Pakistan.

Yes, the concept, that all such acts are performed by suicide bombers who're trying to wage a 'revenge' oriented campaign is good for those with a simplistic mindset. It's simply beyond the likes of these, to actually consider the fact that such networks were already in place in settled areas of Pakistan in form of sectarian outfits, which have now further established mutually beneficial partnerships with the likes of TTP and other Taliban outfits operating inside our tribal areas. This has, in turn brought hoards of money to sectarian outfits while Taliban and co, get to use their facilities - some of which I've already described above.

Now before any of you start talking about the war on terror and how it is the only reason, there lies a connection between sectarian outfits and Taliban. I'd like to draw your attention to news reports from the 90s, where it was made clear by the security forces of the country the perpetrators of mass murderers of Shiites usually took 'amaan' inside the then 'Ilaqa-e-Ghair'. These relations were started back then.

[960bhp]

Originally Posted by MummyDaddy

As I have said in my own posts, the stratgey in FATA needs to be reconsidered and more emphasis needs to be placed on winning the hearts and minds of the people. The Taliban's actions cannot be justified. They kill innocents, and are more than willing to ruin lives through the imposition of their parochial ideology. If they do not surrender peacefully, they should be fought.

MD

you have just written my exact views.... I think funxlab will also concur. this is what should be done. I dont believe there has been a sincere effort by our government to carry out a meaningful dialogue with FATA people. All we do is as soon as America says start killing, we start killing. period.

We need to wisely tackle the situation and exhaust all other options, then whole nation and even FATA people will be with Pakistan army to kill the Taliban and foreign fighters in that region. It will be a meaningful and justified war then. Right now its genocide. pure and simple. Pakistan does not have precision guided munition. All they are doing is bombing the area indiscriminately.

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by Mummy Daddy

As I have said in my own posts, the stratgey in FATA needs to be reconsidered and more emphasis needs to be placed on winning the hearts and minds of the people. The Taliban's actions cannot be justified. They kill innocents, and are more than willing to ruin lives through the imposition of their parochial ideology. If they do not surrender peacefully, they should be fought.

Isn't the army doing exactly what you've mentioned, i mean nagotiations, peace agreements, and operation on violating the agreement???

[Kursed]

Pakistan does not have precision guided munition

Why else do you believe we're using our already aging bunch of F-16s instead of F-7PGs or even Mirage fighters? That's if dumb bombs are all that we're dropping there. It's because we 'are' in fact using precision guided weaponry in such areas, weapons such as SLAM / SLAM-ERs. If Pakistan military machine were to conduct a genocide in these areas, they'd be dropping NAPALMs there not dumb bombs.