List of Armed forces officers heading civilian institutions...updated as of 2004

[Kursed]

Recruit list: uptil 2004 only
Besides tens of thousands of Army Men working in government-owned airline
and other government-owned industries here's list of Army Officers in
Civilian Govt. Departments and Government owned industries and civilian
institutions of Pakistan including Universities.


> >General Pervez Musharraf (President of Pakistan)
> >Major General (Retd) Muhammad Anwar (President of Azad Kashmir);
> >Lt Gen (Retd) Khalid Maqbool (Governor Punjab);
> >Commander Khalil (Governor NWFP);
> >Lt General (Retd) Javed Ashraf Qazi (Federal Education Minister);
> >Col (Retd) S.K. Tressler (Federal Minorities & Culture Minister);
> >Lt Gen. Hamid Javed (Chief Executive's Chief of Staff);
> >Lt General Muneer Hafeez (Chief of NAB);
> >Major General Usman Shah (Deputy Chief of NAB);
> >Major General Shujaat Zameer (Deputy Chief of NAB);
> >Major General Abdul Jabbar Bhatti (Chief, Regional
> >Accountability Bureau, RAB,Punjab);
> >Air Vice Marshal Zakaullah (Chief of RAB NWFP);
> >Major General Tariq Bashir (Chief of RAB Sindh);
> >Major General Owais Mushtaq (Chief of RAB Balochistan) ;
> >Lt General (Retd) Hamid Nawaz (Secretary Defence);
> >Air Marshal (Retd) Zahid Anees (Secretary Defence Production);
> >Lt General (Retd) Saeedul Zafar (Secretary Railways);
> >Major General (Retd) Fazal Ghafoor (Ambassador to North Korea);
> >Brigadier (Retd) Abdul Majeed Khan (Ambassador to Tajikistan);
> >Major General (Retd) Salimullah (Ambassador to UAE);
> >Major General (Retd) Muhammad Hassan Aqeel (Ambassador to Thailand);
> >Lt General (Retd) Asad Durrani (Ambassador to Saudi Arabia);
> >Vice Admiral (Retd) Shamoon Aslam Khan (Ambassador to Ukraine);
> >Air Marshal (Retd) Najeeb Akhtar (Ambassador to Brazil);
> >Major General Syed Mustafa Anwar Hussain (Ambassador to Indonesia);
> >Lt General (Retd) Muhammad Shafeeq (Ambassador to Bahrain);
> >Major General (Retd) Agha Masood Hassan (DG of Postal Services);
> >Major General Farrukh Javed (Chairman National Highway Authority);
> >Rear Admiral Ahmad Hayat (Chairman Karachi Port Trust);
> >Rear Admiral Sikandar Viqar Naqvi (Chairman Port Qasim Authority);
> >Vice Admiral Tauqir Hussain Naqvi (Chairman National Shipping Corporation)
> >;
> >Major General (Retd) Muhammad Hassan (Chief of National Fertilizer
> >Corporation) ;
> >A Lt. General (Chairman Pakistan Steel Mills);
> >Lt Colonel (Retd) Akbar Hussain (Export Processing Zone Authority);
> >Major General Shehzad Alam Malik (Chairman Pakistan Telecommunications
> >Authority);
> >Air Vice Marshal Azhar Masood (Chairman National Telecommunications
> >Authority);
> >Brigadier (Retd) Muhammad Saleem (Chairman NADRA);
> >Brigadier Mirza Babar Aziz (DG NADRA);
> >Brigadier (Retd) Muhammad Anwar Khan (DG NADRA NWFP);
> >Major General Raza Hussain (Chairman SUPARCO);
> >Major General Sabihuddin Bokhari (Surveyor General of Pakistan);
> >Brigadier Javed Iqbal Cheema (DG National Crisis Management Cell);
> >Air Marshal (Retd) Shafeeq Haider (Chairman Federal Public Service
> >Commission);
> >Lt General Arshad Hussain (Member Federal Public Service Commission);
> >Lt General (Retd) Jehangir Nasrullah (Chairman Punjab Public Service
> >Commission);
> >Major General (Retd) Arshad Chaudhry (Member Punjab Public Service
> >Commission);
> >Major General (Retd) Arshadullah Tarar (Member Punjab Public Service
> >Commission);
> >Air Vice Marshal (Retd) Aliuddin (DG Civil Aviation Authority);
> >Air Vice Marshal (Retd) Arshad Saleem (Deputy DG Civil Aviation Authority);
> >Major General Zafar Abbas (DG Anti-Narcotics Force);
> >Major General Syed Haider Javed (DG National Logistics Cell);
> >Major General (Retd) Inayatullah Khan Niazi (DG Auqaf, the Deptt. of
> >Historical Relics);
> >Major General Pervez Akmal (MD OGDC);
> >Brigadier (Retd) Rizvan Ashraf (General Manager OGDC);
> >Brigadier (Retd) Ishtiaq Ali Khan (MD Pakistan Mineral Development
> >Authority);
> >Major General (Retd) Hamid Hassan Butt (Chairman Pakistan Railways);
> >Lt General (Retd) Syed Shujaat Ali Khan (Rector Engineering University
> >Lahore);
> >Lt General (Retd) Arshad Mehmood (Vice Chancellor Punjab University);
> >Air Vice Marshal (Retd) Sardar Khan (Vice Chancellor Engineering University
> >Peshawar);
> >Captain (Retd) U.A.G. Isani (Vice Chancellor Islamabad University);
> >Lt General (Retd) Sardar Ali (DG National Institute of Public
> >Administration) ;
> >Brigadier (Retd) Maqsoodul Hassan (DG Directorate of Education);
> >Brigadier Muhammad Ejaz (Home Secretary Punjab);
> >Brigadier Abdur Rehman (Director Health NWFP);
> >Brigadier Shadab (Secretary C&W Punjab)
> >Brigadier Anees (Chairman Punjab Privatisation Commission);
> >Colonel (Retd) Shahid Qureshi (DIG Sindh Telecommunications) ;
> >Colonel (Retd) Ghulam Hussain (Secretary S&GAD NWFP);
> >Brigadier Mukhtar (Home Secretary, Sindh);
> >Brigadier Zaheer Qadri (DG, KDA, Sindh and not Secretary C&W NWFP);
> >Brigadier (Retd) Akhtar (Secretary to Governor Sindh);
> >Major General (Retd) Imtiaz (Chairman Pakistan Athletics Federation);
> >Brigadier Saulat Abbas (DG Pakistan Sports Board).
> >Brig. Khalid Javed, DG Projects Directorate, NADRA, Islamabad
> >Col Talmeez Abbas, DG Dataware Housing, NADRA, Islamabad
> >Maj Tahir M. Alvi DDG, Project Directorate, NADRA, Islambad
> >Brig Safdar Husain Awan is the Secy (C&W) NWFP Brig Qadri is DG KDA;
> >Brig Mohtarim is Home Secretary Sindh
> >Major General (Retd) Hashmi, Registrar, Pakistan Engineering Council;
> >Major General (Retd) Anis Bajwa, Chairman PTDC;
> >Major Genera (Retd) Asif Riaz Bokhari, NRB;
> >Brig Muhammad Toseef Uz Zaman Khan, Civil Aviation Authority;
> >Brig Saeed Ahmed Malik, WAPDA Head Qtrs Lahore;
> >Brig Muhammad Iqbal, WAPDA HQ Lahore;
> >Brig Mushtaq Ahmed, WAPDA HQ, Lahore;
> >Brig Khalid Sohail Cheema, DG Pak PWD;
> >Brig Shamshad Khan, GM NWFP NHA;
> >Brig (Retd) Zareen Khan, Project Incharge Ghazi Brotha Dam WAPDA;
> >Brig (Retd) Mukhtar Ahmed Tariq, GM Admin OGDC;
> >Brig (Retd) Muhammad Hamayoun Khan, GM Procurement OGDC;
> >Brig (Retd) Sardar Javed Ashraf, MD KW&SB;
> >Brig (Retd) Nisar, IG Prisons (Sindh);
> >Brig (Retd) Zafar Ahmed Malik, Karachi Building & Control Authority;
> >Brig (Retd) Aftab Ahmed, DG PHA;
> >Brig (Retd) Dilbar Husain Naqvi, MD National Construction Company;
> >Colonel Rauf, IG Prisons, NWFP;
> >Colonel Asif Jamal, MD, Multan Development Authority;
> >Colonel (Retd) Najam ul Hasan Malik, TMO Rawalpindi;
> >Colonel (Retd) Hafiz Abdur Rehman Malik, MD WASA, Rawalpindi;
> >Colonel (Retd) Kanwar Muhammad Sherbaz Khan, GM CS&E OGDC;
> >Lt Col Muhammad Azim, GM NHA;
> >LT Col Naqeeb Amjad Malik, Manager CS&E OGDC;
> >Lt Col (Retd) Aziz ul Haque Mirza, Member (Operations) NHA;
> >Lt Col (Retd) Hafeezullah Awan, MD WASA Quetta.
> >Major General (Retd) Shujaat Ali Khan, Ambassador to Morocco ;
> >Major General (Retd) Badruddin, Ambassador to Brunei;
> >Vice Admiral(Retd) Khalid Mir, Ambassador to Lebanon;
> >Brig (Retd) Muhammad Nisar, Ambassador to Argentina;
> >Brig. Sikandar Ali, Director, Anti Narctics Force;
> >Brig (R) Saeed Ahmad Rafi, Director General, Ministry of Foreign Affairs
> >(He was inducted by Gen Musharraf into Foreign Service as incharge of
> >overseas polling for Presidential Referendum in April);
> >Brig (R) Mian Khalid Habib, Chief of Protocol, M/o foreign Affirs;
> >Brig Tipu Sultan, Director General, Ministry of Foreign Affairs;
> >Group Capt (R) Khalid Aziz Babar, Director General, M/o Foreign Affairs;
> >Naval Lt (R) Ghalib Iqbal, Consul General, Toronto (son-in-law of former
> >Air Chief Anwar Shamim) {Anwer Shamim is a Quadiyani and had served General
> >Zia {Ameer ul Momineen as per Jamat-e-Islami} , Anwer Shamim has huge
> >ranches in California, USA, which he and his brother in Law Khursheed Anwer
> >Mirza made through trafficking Narcotics during so-called Afghan Jihad {the
> >Time Weekly that carried this news was banned in Pakistan in 80s}.
> >Naval Lt (R) Qasim Raza Mutaqqi, Counsellor, Rome ;
> >Col (R) Salik Nawaz, Deputy Chief of Protocol, M/o Foreign Affairs;
> >Capt (R) Masood Akhtar, Deputy Chief of Protocol, M/o Foreign Affairs;
> >Capt (R) Shaukat Muqaddam, Counsellor, Dublin;
> >Capt (R) Zaighamuddin Azam Khan, Counsellor, Berlin;
> >Capt (R) Sohail Ittehad Hussain, Director General,M/o Foreign Affairs;
> >Capt (R) Khalid Durrani, Director, M/o Foreign Affairs.
> >General ® Jahangeer Karamat, Ambassador of Pakistan in USA.
> >Brigadier ® Ejas Shah, Director General Intelligence Bureau.

The above list was of 2002. In 2003, as many as 104 serving and retired
Lieutenant Generals, Major Generals or equivalent ranks from other services
are among the 1,027 military officers inducted on civilian posts in
different ministries, divisions and Pakistani missions abroad after Oct 12,
1999 military takeover. The number of army Brigadiers or their equivalent
ranks from the Navy and Air Force is even higher at 160, according to an
annexure placed before the Senate library.
> >
There have been 14 ambassadors and a high commissioner from the military
ranks during this period.

> >Of these 1,027 military officers inducted on civilian posts, 27 military
> >officers have been given the prized grade of 22 while 62 officers have been
> >adjusted in grade 21. A whopping figure of 150 officers occupy civilian
> >positions in Grade 20. There are 276 officers between grade 20 and 22
> >alone. The nature of their jobs varies from deputation, secondment,
> >re-employment to contract basis. These military officers occupy civilian
> >posts in a situation where, according to Incharge Cabinet Division Raza
> >Hiraj, there are 700 'unabsorbed' surplus civilian employees. There are 33
> >officers on special duty (OSD) just in grades between 19 and 21.
> >
> >The range of fields where military officers are working on civilian posts
> >encompasses every sector of human endeavour including communications,
> >education, diplomacy, water and electricity management, information, post
> >office, jails, local bodies, think tanks, industrial production, shipping,
> >minority affairs, population welfare, health, agriculture, railways,
> >highways, housing, labour and manpower, social and women development, law
> >and justice and sub-sectors of sports from cricket to hockey.
> >
> >A close look at the figures shows that these military personnel occupy 13
> >posts in the cabinet division, 5 posts in the commerce ministry, 98 in
> >communications ministry, 113 in the defence division, 52 in the defence
> >production division, 9 in the education ministry, 16 in the establishment
> >division, 24 in the ministry of foreign affairs, 6 in the ministry of food,
> >agriculture and livestock. There are 88 military officers working in the
> >ministry of interior, 2 in the health ministry, 6 in the housing and works
> >ministry, 29 in the industries and production ministry, 3 in the
> >information and broadcasting ministry, 58 in the ministry of Information
> >Technology, 25 in the Kashmir affairs and northern affairs ministry, five
> >in the labour and manpower division, 17 in the ministry of minorities
> >affairs, 39 in the ministry of petroleum and natural resources, just one
> >each in the ministry of population welfare, the planning and development
> >division and the ministry of religious affairs. There are two military
> >officials working in the revenue division (CBR), 21 in the ministry of
> >science and technology, 72 in the ministry of railways/railway board, 37 in
> >the ministry of water and power, 5 in the ministry of women development, 6
> >in the Wafaqi Mohtasib (Federal Ombudsmen). There are another 37 officers
> >who have been inducted under the military's 10 per cent quota in civilian
> >posts over and above these appointments.
> >
> >In the Foreign Affairs 13 Lieutenants and Major Generals were appointed as
> >ambassadors in different countries, while one Brigadier and a Major also
> >got ambassadorial positions.
> >Lt-Gen (retd) Asad Durrani was appointed as ambassador in Riyadh (contract
> >expired on October 2002).
> >Vice-Admiral (retd) Shamoon Alam Khan was appointed as ambassador in Kyiv
> >(up to August 28, 2003),
> >Vice-Admiral (retd) Khalid M Mir was appointed ambassador in Beirut (up to
> >July 2003),
> >Lt-Gen (retd) Nasim Rana as ambassador in Kuala Lumpur (up to July 2003),
> >Air Marshal (retd) Muhammad Farooq Qari as ambassador in Tripoli,
> >Lt-Gen (retd) Agha Jehangir Ali Khan as ambassador in Mexico,
> >Maj-Gen (retd) Shujaat Ali Khan as ambassador in Rabat (up to September
> >2003),
> >Maj-Gen (retd) Fazal Ghafoor as ambassador in Tashkent (contract expired on
> >April 2002),
> >Maj-Gen (retd) Salim Ullah as ambassador in Abu Dhabi (up to June 2003),
> >Lt-Gen (retd) Mohammad Shafique as ambassador in Bahrain (contract expired
> >on October 2002),
> >Maj-Gen (retd) Muhammad Hassan Aqeel as ambassador in Thailand (up to June
> >2003),
> >Maj Gen (retd) Syed Mustafa Anwar Hussain as ambassador in Indonesia (up to
> >August 2003) and Maj-Gen (retd) Sultan Habib as ambassador in DPR Korea (up
> >to October
> >2003).
> >Brigadier Abdul Majid Khan was appointed as ambassador in Dushambe
> >(contract expired on June 2002), while
> >Major Badruddin was posted as high commissioner to Bender Seri Begawen. In
> >the cabinet division,
> >Maj-Gen Khalid Bashir was appointed as Member (Tech) Pakistan
> >Telecommunication Authority (PTA) (up to November 2001),
> >Maj-Gen Raza Hussain as chairman SUPARCO and
> >Maj-Gen Shahzada Alam Malik as Chairman PTA.
> >These inductions were made on regular basis. Similarly, in the ministry of
> >communications, Maj-Gen Tariq Javed was inducted as National Highway
> >Authority chairman on November 11, 2000 but was later repatriated. In his
> >place Maj Gen Furrakh Javed was appointed as NHA chief on November 5, 2001
> >on a secondment basis. He already had served as deputy director general
> >(Dev) in the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). Likewise,
> >Maj-Gen (retd) Agha Masood Hasan was appointed as Director General Pakistan
> >Post Office on a contract basis,
> >Vice-Admiral Taj Muhammad Khattak was appointed as Chairman Port Qasim
> >Authority (PQA) on secondment,
> >Rear Admiral Muhammad Asad Qureshi was appointed as Director General PQA,
> >Vice Admiral (retd) S Tauquir H Naqvi as Chairman Pakistan National
> >Shipping Corporation (PNSC) on contract,
> >Vice Admiral (retd) S Abaid Ullah Khan as chairman (PNSC) (contract
> >terminated on October, 2000),
> >Rear Admiral Bakhat Ali Jumani was appointed as Executive Director (Ship
> >Management PNSC),
> >Rear Admiral (retd) Sarfraz Khan was appointed as Chairman Gwadar Port
> >Authority (GPA),
> >Rear Admiral Muhammad Nashat Raffi as General Manager Karachi Port Trust
> >(KPT),
> >
> >Vice Admiral Ahmed Hayat was appointed on a contract basis as Chairman
> >Karachi Port Trust (KPT), but prior to him Vice Admiral (retd) Khalid
> >Mohammad Mir was serving as chairman. Maj Gen (retd) Mohsin Ahmed Vahidy
> >was appointed as Executive Directive PNSC Karachi on a contract basis but
> >he is not serving now, while Rear Admiral Sikandar Viqar Naqvi was
> >appointed chairman PQA (not serving). Similarly, in the ministry of
> >defence, Lt-Gen (retd) Hamid Nawaz Khan was re-employed on a contract basis
> >as secretary ministry of defence but earlier Lt-Gen (retd) Nasim Rana was
> >serving in this capacity whose contract was terminated on July 8, 2001.
> >Rear Admiral Irfan Ahmad was appointed as Additional Secretary (contract
> >terminated), then Maj-Gen Muhammad Ashraf Chaudhry was made Additional
> >Secretary, defence ministry, on secondment basis.
> >
> >Maj-Gen Javed Iqbal was appointed as Director General Military Land and
> >Cantonments (ML&C) on secondment but he was later retired. Later,
> >Maj Gen Muhammad Jawed was appointed as DG ML&C on secondment.
> >Maj-Gen Mahboobul Muzaffar and Maj-Gen Sabihuddin Bokhari were appointed as
> >Surveyor General of Pakistan.
> >After their retirement, Maj-Gen Tariq Javed was appointed in their place on
> >secondment basis. Rear Admiral Arshad Munir Ahmed was appointed Ex-Managing
> >Director Karachi Shipyard (contract expired),
> >Air Vice Marshal S Javed Raza as Director Pre Engineering PIA,
> >AVM (retd) Niaz Hussain Director (Engineering) PIA and
> >AVM Arshad Rashid Sethi as Deputy Director General, CAA (not working).
> >
> >In the Defence Production Division, Air Marshal (retd) Zahid Anis was
> >appointed as secretary D P Division. Earlier Lt-Gen (retd) Lehrasab was
> >working in his place. Similarly, Maj-Gen Ali Baz was appointed as
> >Additional Secretary D P Division. Earlier, Maj-Gen Rehmat Khan was serving
> >as Additional Secretary D P Division. Maj-Gen M Salimuddin was re-employed
> >after his retirement from the army as Chief Scientists and Scientific
> >Adviser DESTO in place of Maj-Gen Akbar Saeed Awan, while Maj-Gen Syed Ali
> >Hamid was appointed as Director General DEPO on secondment basis while AVM
> >Aurangzeb Khan was appointed Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex board,
> >Kamra.
> >
> >In the Establishment Division, Maj-Gen (retd) Rahmatullah was appointed as
> >Managing Director Federal Employees Benevolent Fund and Group Insurance.
> >Earlier, Maj-Gen (retd) Inayatullah Khan Niazi was working in his place.
> >Air Marshal (retd) Shafique Haider was appointed as Chairman Federal Public
> >Service Commission (FPSC) while Lt-Gen (retd) Arshad Hussain was appointed
> >Member, FPSC.
> >
> >Maj-Gen (retd) Sikander Shami was appointed as Director General of Head of
> >Institute of NIPA, Lahore, while Lt-Gen (retd) Sardar Ali as Director NIPA,
> >Lahore, both on a contract basis. Maj-Gen Muhammad Iqbal Khan was appointed
> >as Managing Director PASSCO on contract in the ministry of food,
> >agriculture and livestock, Maj-Gen Ahsan Ahmad as Director General health
> >on secondment but was replaced by Maj-Gen (retd) Muhammad Aslam also on
> >secondment/contract in the health ministry.
> >
> >In the interior ministry Maj-Gen (retd) Zahid Ehsan was appointed as
> >Chairman Nadra (posted out) while in the ministry of industries and
> >production Maj-Gen (retd) M Mohsin was appointed as chairman NFC (national
> >finance commission) on contract. AVM Azhar Maud was appointed National
> >Telecommunication Corporation (NTC) chairman.
> >
> >In the ministry of information and broadcasting Maj-Gen (retd) Jamshed Ayaz
> >Khan was appointed as president Institute of Regional Studies, Islamabad,
> >on contract. In the minorities, culture, sports, Maj-Gen (retd) Inayat
> >Ullah Khan Niazi was appointed Chairman ETPB (contract expired), while
> >Maj-Gen Anis Ahmad Bajwa was appointed as Managing Director PTDC Islamabad
> >on contract. He had already served as Deputy Chief of Staff to Chief
> >Executive in the Prime Minister's secretariat. Lt-Gen Hamid Javed was
> >appointed as Chief of Staff to the President in the president's
> >secretariat.
> >
> >Similarly in the Prime Minister's secretariat Lt-Gen Ghulam Ahmad was
> >appointed as chief of staff to Chief Executive in place of Lt-Gen Hamid
> >Javed.
> >Maj-Gen Abdul Jabbar Bhatti, Maj-Gen Shafaatullah Shah and
> >Maj-Gen Muhammad Yousaf were also appointed as deputy chief of staff to
> >chief executive.
> >Maj-Gen Haroon Sikandar Pasha was appointed as Director Chief Executive's
> >secretariat.
> >Maj-Gen Nadeem Taj had also served as Military Secretary (MS) to Chief
> >Executive (posted as MS to the president from January 2002).
> >Lt-Gen Khalid Maqbool (now Governor Punjab) and Lt-Gen Syed Muhammad Amjad
> >were appointed as Chairm an National Accountability Bureau (NAB), while
> >Maj-Gen Abdul Jabbar Bhatti,
> >Maj-Gen Ijaz Ahmed Bakhshi and
> >Maj-Gen Ovais Mushtaq Qureshi,
> >AVM (retd) M Saleemud
> >Din, Maj-Gen Muhammad Sabir,
> >Maj-Gen Nazakat Ali Khan,
> >Maj-Gen Shujaat Zamir Dar,
> >Maj-Gen Syed Usman Shah and
> >Maj-Gen Tariq Bashir,
> >Rear Admiral Ihsanul Haq,
> >Real Admiral Ubaid Sadiq, AVM Masood Akhtar,
> >AVM Zakaullah Khan and
> >AVM (retd) Khuda Dad were subsequently appointed as Director General, NAB
> >Maj-Gen (retd) Syed Asif Riaz Bokhari was appointed as Member, NRB on a
> >contract basis.
> >
> >Maj-Gen Parvez Akmal was appointed as Managing Director Oil and Gas
> >Development Company (OGDC) (not working) while Maj-Gen (retd) Syed Usman
> >Shah was appointed as Director General Intelligence and Investigation.
> >
> >In the railways ministry Lt-Gen (retd) Javaid Ashraf Qazi was appointed as
> >secretary/chairman Pakistan Railways. After his contract was terminated
> >Lt-Gen (retd) Saeeduz Zafar replaced him. On termination of his contract,
> >Maj-Gen (retd) Hamid Hassan Butt was appointed as General Manager M & SPR
> >but his contract too was terminated. Lt-Gen (retd) Zulfiqar Ali Khan was
> >appointed as WAPDA Chairman on secondment/contract while Maj-Gen (retd) M
> >Aslam Zuberi was appointed Adviser in the Wafaqi Mohtasib secretariat
> >(contract expired). Those who were appointed in the attached departments
> >include Air Marshal (retd) Sharbat A Changazi who was appointed as Director
> >State Life Insurance Corporation of Pakistan and Rear Admiral (retd) Ejaz
> >Husain appointed as General Manager Special Project, Pakistan State Oil
> >Company Ltd. {4}

[AhmedKhan]

Don't you think it would have been much easier for you to just list the civilian posts that civilians have? The list would have been much shorter.

P.S.
I have the same email

[jin_baba]

foj walay saari service foj main hotay hain...retirement kay baad moj main hotay hain

[Digital Jedi]

1) Exclude the retired guys.
2) If they fit in the place, it's OK with me.

[eterrestrial32]

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

1) Exclude the retired guys.
2) If they fit in the place, it's OK with me.

What exactly do you mean "exclude the retired guys", huh? How many civilians do you know who retire from their jobs and are then instated at such high ranking positions? God how you need to get out of that bubble that you live in, sheesh!!!

[eff-kay]

Please add:

lft General (rtd) Vice Chancellor University of Engineering and Technology Lahore.


People and specially Sufyaan (pardon me for spell mistake)
I can't comment about other people; but I can comment about VC of UET Lahore. Although he has done good by removing student politics from university - but he has screwed the education system, screwed all the good teachers (like Dr. Bukhari, he has left UET)..... and promoted Apple Polishing (in punjabi "TC")..... now those people are getting PHD who don't even know spellings of "computer"....... if you come to UET, you will see nice roads, nice lawns.... but go to staff room, you will not find competent teachers.

.. I am UET graduate and constantly keep myself in touch with UET, as I really love that place, it has given me a lot... Once a UETian, always a UETian.

[Digital Jedi]

deleted

[Kursed]

The fact that a guy like him is the VC of UET is because he's from the Army.

[eff-kay]

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

But I see the circumstances prevailing in UET are more related to the VC himself than the fact that he is from the army.

Well, may be yea, but the fact still remains same, he is from army... I know corruption is there in civil government too, but it ignites one's anger when people say that army is holy cow, and is not corrupt... atleast admit that they are as corrupt as civil institutions are... there has to be some accountability for the money we are pouring on holy cow.

well never mind, Javed Hashmi got out today... good news...

[Digital Jedi]

deleted

[Kursed]

60 years of democracy. Suffyan - seriously, either you and I have read different history books or one of us has spent the last 20 years of his life under a rock.

[MummyDaddy]

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

I have figured out why I am not able to convince anyone.

I could've told you why. The reason is partly because of your complete divorce from reality, and partly because you never back up anything you say with arguments that can withstand even the slightest scrutiny.

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

I look for GDP and Annual Development Rate more than the direct stuff which actually takes time to adjust accordingly, consumer goods' prices for example.

Suffyan, since you are evidently studying engineering, I cannot blame you for holding this opinion. It's not your fault that you aren't taught economics. If you were, you would know that all the macroeconomic growth in the world will not help the common man unless wealth is redistributed. You would understand that Pakistan has an extremely poorly developed industrial base and has been unable to diversify its economy. You would see just how much Pakistan's current 'growth' is based on speculation and volatile FDI.

Even if I'm wrong, the point is that growth rates alone are NOT good indicators of how well a country is doing. Of course, I've said this before (only to be ignored).

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

And, for the sake of another example, KuRsEd and MD, the way I've figured them out, they prefer to allow democratic government to learn from their past mistakes and improve their reputation.

It's really not that simple, Suffyan. There are many reasons why democracy is preferable to a military dictatorship, all of which I have outlined on numerous occassions.

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

I don't know why they have such desire after the past 60 years of democratic gaovenments' failure, but I'll not call it pointless because they have points, some of which they have expressed earlier, and to them, they were the basis of their demand os democratic government, but not like to convince me

Surely you recognise the role played by the military in disrupting democracy...

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

So, the point is, I can change opinions with providing enough facts to prove my point, but I cannot change ideology: the fact that governs the basic difference in political views. And please do not think that I'm trying to cover my weaknesses.

Absolutely right, Suffyan. If you provide facts, we will change our opinions. It is just unfortunate that you haven't provided any facts. What about the facts Kursed and I provide on a regular basis?

MD

[Digital Jedi]

deleted

[MummyDaddy]

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

Yeah, economics guys understand better than pre-engineering guys, I look for these indicators because, even not directly reflecting situation in many cases, are universally accepted at organization level, and government level, and these are what I have studied in Pak-studies in school

Suffyan, let me give you a (very) brief lesson in global economic history. Once upon a time, about 60 years ago, people started wondering why some countries were more developed than others. Although they had wondered these things in the past as well, they gave this issue more thought than they had previously because the capitalist countries in the West did not want underdeveloped countries and ex-colonies to adopt communism. As a result, many economic theories and policies were devised that advocated industrialisation and capital investment as essential to economic development.

That was all well and good, except for the fact that there were huge social upheavals and disparities in the developing world as a result of such policies. Economies were growing, but inequality and social exclusion were not going away.

It was then realised that economic growth was not enough. What, after all, was the point of a 7% growth rate if many people continued to live in poverty. It was then theorised, by people like Amartya Sen (who won a Nobel prize), that development meant more than just economic growth. It meant an equitable distribution of resources and wealth, with access to civil liberties, political transparency, and social security. In the absence of these things, economic growth would only benefit a rich, parasitic minority.

Economic growth rates only tell you one thing: the rate at which the economy is growing. They do NOT tell you how the wealth is being distributed, or where it is being allocated. They also do not tell you whether the economy is structured in a way that would allow for sustainable growth. Go take a look at the UNDP or the World Bank's country statistics and see how many different indicators it takes to gauge a country's 'development'.

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

It was very clear to me when I send you info from CNN proving that Nawaz Sharif did try to attack a civil airliner. It was enough to turn me against the democratic governments, but for you, it was just a piece of information. This difference is valid, and is a fact.

General Zia-ul-Haq had a democratically elected leader hanged. General Yahya Khan presided over the break-up of the country. General Ayub Khan led Pakistan into a pointless war with India.

Let me make it blindingly obvious for you Suffyan, so that you don't keep bringing this up. Democracy, especially in this country, is not perfect. Democracy is only as good as the political institutions that support it. It is these institutions that provide checks and balances (which, obviously, are lacking in any military dictatorship). You need an independent judiciary, an empowered, elected legislature, and an executive that listens to the will of the people. These institutions do not develop overnight. You need to sustain democracy for it to work. Interfering with it every ten years will never allow it to succeed. Nawaz Sharif was a moron. But he was a moron who could be removed from office.

Musharraf, on the other hand, is just a moron.

MD

[eff-kay]

Originally Posted by Suffyan Asad

Secondly, I would apologize to eff-kay for including some thing from his recent private messages.

No problem. See I am not an economics guy... for me the only index to measure prosperity is the bread price-index... which I am afraid has touched the sky. Mushy had eight years to do something.... and he has done nothing as todate.

Military dictatorship can be good under "IDEAL" situation, where the dictator really wanted to help the country. Like, let me give you an example from our past. *Ayub khan made couple of dams in Pakistan. People stood against him, but being dictator, he never cared about resistance. He knew that country needs damn otherwise country will be screwed. He made those dams despite there was resistance. I admit had there been any democratic government, they might have taken some other decision. But case of musharaf is that he is there just to enjoy his life. He has nothing to do with country. Had he been that sincere, he would have atleast started the construction of kala bagh. If he can kill bugti why the fork he can't start constructing that dam?? I know it will be a long debate, and I am deviating from point... so I will stop here.

I will again say, paralyzed democracy is still better then dictator or dictator backed so called democratic government.

* please don't imply that I am backing ayub khan or liked him. in my opinion he can be counted as a 'bit' less evil of all...