Hillary Clinton: 'I'm in' 2008 White House race

[Kursed]

Democratic Senator Hillary Clinton has taken the first step towards running for the US presidency in 2008.

Ms Clinton, 59, wife of former president Bill, announced her move on her website, saying "I'm in to win".


The former First Lady has set up a presidential exploratory committee, testing the waters for a full bid.


Her announcement comes days after African-American Democratic Senator Barack Obama said he had formed an exploratory committee.


In a videotaped and written message on her website, Ms Clinton said it was time "to overcome six years of Bush administration failures.
"The stakes will be high when America chooses a new president in 2008," she said.

BBC



So many had predicted this to happen and at last we'll see the first ever woman candidate in a bid for the seat of President of the world's lone super power. Your reactions people?

[PsychedelicBreakfast]

Obama also announced a few days back, I think. This should be an interesting election.

[Thyhammerr]

ummm.. if she stands from democrats' side, then i am guessing she might win. Independetly, no chance i guess.

Regards,
Thyhammerr

[nn||nr]

hillary can win the primary, obama can win the general election. as things stand right now neither can with both, so things might be touch. america is ready for neither a woman nor a black but this is a huge step forward for both "minorities". i predict a dark horse catching up to them, amongst them joe biden, chris dodd, sam brownback and mitt romney!
VERY interesting race.


its interesting that hillary was in afghanistan and Pakistan two days before her anouncements. anybody have the lowdown on what she was doing there?

[HeLLz aNgeL]

the obama guys the one whos getting a free ride form the media for some strange reason, but IMO the u.s. isnt ready to elect a female or an african american president at this point .... so i say, even if they put up a numbskull against them for president he'll win ... no mater how dumb he may be ....

my $.02...

[AhmedKhan]

I am sorry but I find it funny how we Pakistanis are so very much interested in the US politics. I don't mean to offend anyone or anything but it's really funny to me. It's like a "fashion", US elections are discussed in our "upper-middle class" drawingrooms and people give in thier opinions why things will turn this way or the other as they are the experts on the US politics .
I mean, we don't even know who is contesting in our own constituency yet we are so "excited" about the US elections. We don't even stop to think for a second that our "sham" elections will be held before the US elections yet we are not interested in that.
And what's even more funny is that people say "in my opinion US is not ready" for this or for that, that's is just so hilarious. I mean, may I be bold enough to inquire the basis of this "opinion"? A degree in Western politics? 3-4 generations American and family in politics? I mean what is it that forms the basis of this "opinion"? 5-10 years of stay? Couple of lesure trips? Internet?
You know, if there was an opening for a 51st state or perhaps just a US territory like Guam and Virgin Islands, Pakistan will be the country trying its best to be that 51st state and interestingly enough, the Fazlu and the Qazi type would be the first one to jump on the boat. We just can't bear not to be Americans
I am sorry, I just find if funny (and at times embarassing).

[HeLLz aNgeL]

chalo jeee ... amee bhaoooo !! aint nothing safe from this guy ???

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

A degree in Western politics?

Yes, political science minor

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

5-10 years of stay?

Yes

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

Internet?

Yes

Now, the "basis" of "my opinion" ... i deal with these people everyday ... i know how they feel about people who non-white people and females .... you know no matter how much you legalize something, and no matter how much you display something as "your personality" ... if someone observes you long enough, your true colors do show ....

ok ... have i justified my "opinions"???

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

I mean, may I be bold enough to inquire the basis of this "opinion"?

Now, MAY I be BOLD enough to inquire the basis of your "boldness" and the needless essay you just typed ???

i mean, dont you have anything else to do than rant about everything ? its not my fault a gorrila raped you when you were 6 and forced you to stuff a dozen bananas where the sun dont shine... grow up now and stop fighting with everyone you see ....

[nn||nr]

I am sorry but I find it funny how we Pakistanis are so very much interested in the US politics.

if you find it funny, laugh. dont sermonize. If its any consolation, a change of power from republicans to democrats has a high likelihood of putting extreme pressure on Musharraf and a return to civilian rule.
And I find it funny that the guy using this forum for finding whats the most common name in Pakistan (oh i promise its for something important i just can't tell you what it is) has a problem if some people find US politics interesting.

Theres a high likelihood that if I don't mean to offend anyone or anything but it's really funny to me.

WHA?!?!

It's like a "fashion", US elections are discussed in our "upper-middle class" drawingrooms and people give in thier opinions why things will turn this way or the other as they are the experts on the US politics .

so anything anyone else does is cuz its fashionable and just so you know I'm not upper middle class, I'm typing from the video game arcade in a rural suburb. Honest. And NEXT time i hear you say any crap on any frikkin topic that you don't have a valid degree in, I'm gonna whoop your ass for expressing your opinion just cuz you're an "expert" in that field.

I mean, we don't even know who is contesting in our own constituency yet we are so "excited" about the US elections. We don't even stop to think for a second that our "sham" elections will be held before the US elections yet we are not interested in that.

Thats cuz the frikkin tickets havent been announced for our elections fool. And just so you know atleast theres a surety that the US elections will be held, we don't even know for sure when our elections will occur. And one of the main reasons anyone isnt interested in Pakistani politics is because it IS a sham and hence there are no trends to follow (and the ones that are present are too controversial to be discussed on a public forum)

And what's even more funny is that people say "in my opinion US is not ready" for this or for that, that's is just so hilarious. I mean, may I be bold enough to inquire the basis of this "opinion"? A degree in Western politics? 3-4 generations American and family in politics? I mean what is it that forms the basis of this "opinion"? 5-10 years of stay? Couple of lesure trips? Internet?

Again, if its funny laugh. DIE LAUGHING. The basis of my opinion is as a student of current politics based on following the news, 2 Generations of family in America. One generation of family in American politics, 2 Generations in Pakistani politics. An anticipated stay of atleast 10 years to finish post graduate training in medicine during which the change in government and indeed the personalities will have a MAJOR effect on my profession with regards to outpatient imaging cuts, DRA 2005 and Medicare (go look them up creep).
Oh and if that isn't enough for i-can-start-a-frikkin-thread-on-somalia-but-you-cant-comment-on-America, I'd also like to mention my interest and opinion to be a by-product of insights based on personal friendship with a campaign manager for the last major Democratic campaign and who is currently deciding which horse to back in the Democratic primary. But thats not important, you probably find it funny.

You know, if there was an opening for a 51st state or perhaps just a US territory like Guam and Virgin Islands, Pakistan will be the country trying its best to be that 51st state and interestingly enough, the Fazlu and the Qazi type would be the first one to jump on the boat. We just can't bear not to be Americans

Thats cuz with the rate of street crime in major cities in America, we'd probably have less fools like you to deal with. And just as food for thought, what is your comment on the fazlu and qazi types based on? personal conversations? a degree in seccesionism? intimate conjugal relations?

I am sorry, I just find if funny (and at times embarassing).

you should be sorry.

[AhmedKhan]

So much love
I did say, I don't mean to offend, didn't I? I guess I forgot or you guys didn't read. Well, I really didn't mean to offend. Apparently, this is you guys' senstive side.

Originally Posted by HeLLz aNgeL

chalo jeee ... amee bhaoooo !! aint nothing safe from this guy ???

Come on man, what else did I do to you?

Originally Posted by HeLLz aNgeL

Now, the "basis" of "my opinion" ... i deal with these people everyday ... i know how they feel about people who non-white people and females .... you know no matter how much you legalize something, and no matter how much you display something as "your personality" ... if someone observes you long enough, your true colors do show ....

ok ... have i justified my "opinions"???

Not really. You see, you don't deal with 300 million people everyday. You deal with a very very small segment of the population that is going to vote and that in turn skews your opinion. You will get different reactions depending on the location and the people you are dealing with. But that's good enough.

Originally Posted by HeLLz aNgeL

Now, MAY I be BOLD enough to inquire the basis of your "boldness" and the needless essay you just typed ???

You may be so bold. No real reason for it. Can I take it back? Obviously I have hurt you in some very peculiar manner. Some bad childhood memories. Can I apolgize...please? Will you please accept my humble apology?

Originally Posted by HeLLz aNgeL

i mean, dont you have anything else to do than rant about everything ? its not my fault a gorrila raped you when you were 6 and forced you to stuff a dozen bananas where the sun dont shine... grow up now and stop fighting with everyone you see ....

rant about everything? Come on man, isn't that exagerrated? Yes, you are right. It's really not your fault. I am trying to grow up.

And now, that you are so grown up and mature, please learn to take some criticism. It is also a good idea to remain civil with a person you completely disagree with or who has provoked you quite uneccesarily. Freedom of expression isn't about allowing someone to speak who agrees with you, it's about letting someone talk against something that you live for.

Originally Posted by nn||nr

if you find it funny, laugh. dont sermonize. If its any consolation, a change of power from republicans to democrats has a high likelihood of putting extreme pressure on Musharraf and a return to civilian rule.
And I find it funny that the guy using this forum for finding whats the most common name in Pakistan (oh i promise its for something important i just can't tell you what it is) has a problem if some people find US politics interesting.

FYI, Lyndon Johnson was a Democrat so was Clinton. Ayub implemented Martial Law (for, arguably, the first time ever in Pakistan) during Johnson and Mushraff did during Clinton. On the other side, Zia was a military dictator during Regan who was a Repulican. So you are telling me that one or the other is in favor of civilian rule? The US doesn't support civil rule or freedom or anything, it supports, and rightfully so, whoever works for its best interest. So please wake up.
I have absloutely no problem. Did my post in anyway showed even a hint of a problem. I just thought it was ok to say what I thought but obviously if it doesn't agree with your opinion then that's considered a problem.
Yeah the name thing, kind of lame but I needed it. Sorry you had to read it.

Originally Posted by nn||nr

so anything anyone else does is cuz its fashionable and just so you know I'm not upper middle class, I'm typing from the video game arcade in a rural suburb. Honest. And NEXT time i hear you say any crap on any frikkin topic that you don't have a valid degree in, I'm gonna whoop your ass for expressing your opinion just cuz you're an "expert" in that field.

You do realize that this statement and the statement about 2 generations here and a generation there and all kind of contradicts the above.
Please don't "whoop my ass". By the way, I didn't tell you not to have an opinion. I just asked to let me know the basis, it just makes the opinion credible. I don't know and I read what you said and I wanted to form my own opinion so I thought why not ask the person the reason for his opinion so later on when someone asks me I can tell them that well I know this because a 2 generation and 1 genertation and 10 years guy said so, so it has to be right.

Originally Posted by nn||nr

Thats cuz the frikkin tickets havent been announced for our elections fool. And just so you know atleast theres a surety that the US elections will be held, we don't even know for sure when our elections will occur. And one of the main reasons anyone isnt interested in Pakistani politics is because it IS a sham and hence there are no trends to follow (and the ones that are present are too controversial to be discussed on a public forum)

That, dear brother, is exactly my point. We are not even sure if our elections will ever take place and even if they do, will it be fair? Yet we like to discuss American election. Not that there is anything at all wrong with discussing it but I just meant that there may be other issues that impact our soceity more directly.

Originally Posted by nn||nr

Again, if its funny laugh. DIE LAUGHING. The basis of my opinion is as a student of current politics based on following the news, 2 Generations of family in America. One generation of family in American politics, 2 Generations in Pakistani politics. An anticipated stay of atleast 10 years to finish post graduate training in medicine during which the change in government and indeed the personalities will have a MAJOR effect on my profession with regards to outpatient imaging cuts, DRA 2005 and Medicare (go look them up creep).

As to Medicare and Tax cuts and other issues, yes that's important. But an average Pakistani may not be "enormously" affected by the US medicare or tax cuts or outpatient imaging cuts or DRA 2005. To you as a person, it may very well does. But you see, this "exactly" was my point. We the rest of the not-so-privileged-but-dying-to-be Pakistanis don't have generations in the US and it may not affect us the same way as it does a person who has "at least" 10 years to spend in the US.

Originally Posted by nn||nr

Oh and if that isn't enough for i-can-start-a-frikkin-thread-on-somalia-but-you-cant-comment-on-America, I'd also like to mention my interest and opinion to be a by-product of insights based on personal friendship with a campaign manager for the last major Democratic campaign and who is currently deciding which horse to back in the Democratic primary. But thats not important, you probably find it funny.

Somalia was just on humanatarian basis so that we "at least" know that there are people, human beings, dying for no good reason. They may not be rich, they may not affluent, they may not affect Pakistan, they may not be "cool" to discussed about, they may not be white, but they are humans, don't you think? 21 people die in London and there is outcry. Million died in Rawnda and people don't even know Rawnda is a country and if it is, it is just somewhere in Africa.

Originally Posted by nn||nr

Thats cuz with the rate of street crime in major cities in America, we'd probably have less fools like you to deal with. And just as food for thought, what is your comment on the fazlu and qazi types based on? personal conversations? a degree in seccesionism? intimate conjugal relations?

I think that's just love .
As to about how I know Fazlu and Qazi, I am Pakistani and so are they and if it is ok to comment if 2 generations live somewhere then don't you think it is OK for me to comment on some people where not my 2 but more than 20 generations have been living?

Originally Posted by nn||nr

you should be sorry.

Obviously, I am. I thought people may be able to take some criticism, I was wrong. And I am sorry for that.

Lastly, the whole point was, before we make a judgment on certain "society" we need to know and understand a whole lot more than just news and internet. I wouldn't accept any white man's opinion on Pakistani soceity and what it's ready for and what it's not ready for who has visited Northern areas and read a book about it. Making a statement about society requires a much deeper understanding of it. That's all.

[nn||nr]

Look, I wouldn't have an issue with your post if you had voiced an opinion on the topic at hand. You have an issue about people voicing an opinion on American politics because you think its frivolous to do so. Hellz angel and I are not pissed because you disagreed with us. You didn't. Your post had NOTHING to do with the topic. If you think the topic is absurd, you're welcome not to post. Learn to debate constructively.

FYI, Lyndon Johnson was a Democrat so was Clinton. Ayub implemented Martial Law (for, arguably, the first time ever in Pakistan) during Johnson and Mushraff did during Clinton. On the other side, Zia was a military dictator during Regan who was a Repulican. So you are telling me that one or the other is in favor of civilian rule? The US doesn't support civil rule or freedom or anything, it supports, and rightfully so, whoever works for its best interest. So please wake up.
I have absloutely no problem. Did my post in anyway showed even a hint of a problem. I just thought it was ok to say what I thought but obviously if it doesn't agree with your opinion then that's considered a problem.
Yeah the name thing, kind of lame but I needed it. Sorry you had to read it.

I think you're reading history incorrectly. Nixon was a greater supporter (and by supporter I mean he didn't actively admonish the lack of democracy) in Pakistan than Johnson ever was. Similiary while Musharraf took power during Clintons era, Clinton refused to be photographed with the man. However George Bush has no qualms in doing so. America does support what is in its own best interests. But both parties serve different idealogies. Democrats in general have more jitters in supporting a dictator. This is manifest in most policy statements made by the Democratic party.
Your post indicated you had a problem with people who expressed their opinion about American politics. MY post on the other had a problem with you not adding anything significant to the discussion and instead criticizing the validity of having the discussion. Like I said; you were welcome to ignore the thread.
If you feel my opinion is based on BS then challenge it by saying e.g that I believe you are wrong because Hillary has built an effective organization and has by far the largest war chest for the campaign. The method you used was counterproductive. btw what IS you view of the current American political scene?
I follow the Pakistani political scene closer than I follow the American one. Not that that has ANYTHING to do with my (or for that matter anyone elses) opinion on the matter.

As to Medicare and Tax cuts and other issues, yes that's important. But an average Pakistani may not be "enormously" affected by the US medicare or tax cuts or outpatient imaging cuts or DRA 2005. To you as a person, it may very well does. But you see, this "exactly" was my point. We the rest of the not-so-privileged-but-dying-to-be Pakistanis don't have generations in the US and it may not affect us the same way as it does a person who has "at least" 10 years to spend in the US.

Agreed. Which is why I'm posting on this thread and the "average Pakistani" isnt.
You feel deaths in Somalia are an important discussion. I feel American politics is an important discussion. If you have anything to add the thread, do so. If you just think its a waste of time and the rest of us are trying to be COOL, then bug off.

Lastly, the whole point was, before we make a judgment on certain "society" we need to know and understand a whole lot more than just news and internet. I wouldn't accept any white man's opinion on Pakistani soceity and what it's ready for and what it's not ready for who has visited Northern areas and read a book about it. Making a statement about society requires a much deeper understanding of it. That's all.

Agreed. Which is why, as someone LIVING in America, I feel I was qualified to comment.

[AhmedKhan]

Originally Posted by nn||nr

Look, I wouldn't have an issue with your post if you had voiced an opinion on the topic at hand. You have an issue about people voicing an opinion on American politics because you think its frivolous to do so. Hellz angel and I are not pissed because you disagreed with us. You didn't. Your post had NOTHING to do with the topic. If you think the topic is absurd, you're welcome not to post. Learn to debate constructively.


I think you're reading history incorrectly. Nixon was a greater supporter (and by supporter I mean he didn't actively admonish the lack of democracy) in Pakistan than Johnson ever was. Similiary while Musharraf took power during Clintons era, Clinton refused to be photographed with the man. However George Bush has no qualms in doing so. America does support what is in its own best interests. But both parties serve different idealogies. Democrats in general have more jitters in supporting a dictator. This is manifest in most policy statements made by the Democratic party.
Your post indicated you had a problem with people who expressed their opinion about American politics. MY post on the other had a problem with you not adding anything significant to the discussion and instead criticizing the validity of having the discussion. Like I said; you were welcome to ignore the thread.
If you feel my opinion is based on BS then challenge it by saying e.g that I believe you are wrong because Hillary has built an effective organization and has by far the largest war chest for the campaign. The method you used was counterproductive. btw what IS you view of the current American political scene?
I follow the Pakistani political scene closer than I follow the American one. Not that that has ANYTHING to do with my (or for that matter anyone elses) opinion on the matter.

Agreed. Which is why I'm posting on this thread and the "average Pakistani" isnt.
You feel deaths in Somalia are an important discussion. I feel American politics is an important discussion. If you have anything to add the thread, do so. If you just think its a waste of time and the rest of us are trying to be COOL, then bug off.

Agreed. Which is why, as someone LIVING in America, I feel I was qualified to comment.

Makes perfect sense. Nothing to disagree there.
My post really was about those "cliched" "upper middle-class" "wanna-be" Pakistanis and I very specifically mentioned that in my post. I mentioned Somalia because the very same people who sit in drawingrooms and discuss American Politics totally disregard other political scenarios and more importantly the social issues Pakistan is faced with. Again, like I said in my post, that a person who has 2 generations there and has "at least" 10 years there, should discuss it. When I post, I usually don't inquire about other posters' social, political or economical circumstances as to tailor my post according to individual poster. So I don't see a reason to take my post personally, either you or Hellz aNgel.
As to your comment on my post having nothing to do with the matter at hand, I completely agree and I sincerely apologize for that.
As to my opinion on current American political scene; I don't think that Pakistan's political scene is an extension to the US politics (as is widely believe here) or that a change in the US politics or party will ever bring about a significant change in Pakistan. Just like it wouldn't make any difference to Chad or Niger or Finland or Uraguay, it wouldn't make any difference to Pakistan either. We tend to believe that Pakistan is so important to the US that the elected president of the US would first of all say, call Pakistani Prime minister/President, I have some important issues to discuss. My point about Jhonson and Clinton was that they may very well be against dictatorship and they may hate all the dictators with passion, but dictators in Pakistan remained in power and were not "significantly" affected by these Democrats. This goes to show what I said earlier about Pakistan not being an extension to the US politics and therefore, political scene in the US does not in anyway "significantly" affects Pakistan.
Pure American politics opinion, I reserve my opinion for now. I will wait and see who are the primaries and more importantly the presidential debates. Prior to that, it doesn't matter at all, to an "average Pakistani", what happens. Things like raising record money in campaign and being the leader for Democrats to not being able to make it as the presidential candidate happens, so at this point, there is no point making an opinion, especially knowing there is nothing I can do to change the outcome in anyway.
About America not being ready for a woman president. I am not too sure about that. There are two reasons for my opinion. One, so far, there hasn't been any better Democrat candidate than Hillary and not to forget she has Bill's contact help her out. Secondly, there is already Nancy Pelosi so I wouldn't be surprised if there was Hillary Clinton. She definately has problems which arguably are highlighted because of her being a woman but then again, it's not very unlikely that she becomes the president.

[HeLLz aNgeL]

No really AhmedKhan, how old are you ?

either you'r 15, or you have serious inferiority issues cause your wife doesnt listen to you and ran away with the dhobi .... no really ... i'd really like to know your age before i go into this with you ???

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

Not really. You see, you don't deal with 300 million people everyday.

So you have to deal with 300 million people to form an opinion about a country ?? what are you, retarded ???

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

Some bad childhood memories.

Yes, i know... go see a psychiatrist ... the gorrilla memories will go away...

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

I am trying to grow up.

Do we have to bear your stupidity on the forums while you try to do that ???

Originally Posted by AhmedKhan

Freedom of expression isn't about allowing someone to speak who agrees with you, it's about letting someone talk against something that you live for.

Freedom of speech, huh ? In case you just memorized the word, it also means i can say what i want, when i want, without some idiot like you being sorry or embarrased by what i say ... what exactly was the reason of your first post in here ??? just telling me you were sorry, or telling me what "fashion to follow" ???

Lemme put all this in short and sweet words for a mentally challenged person like you:

"Son, go f off ... you dont tell me what i say or what i do"

and if you didnt get that, try this on for size:

"suck my ****, choke on it, and die"

and one last thing: "if you cant contribute to a topic, PLEASE do everyone a favour and dont post in that topic.... go make a new post in the aalloo gosht section because thats all you can do without making yourself sound real stupid"

mods ... warning ?? *cough* *coughh*